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bpopp

MMORPG is not a bad word!

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I have read post after post where some poor guy has confessed his dream to build an MMORPG and you people (you know who you are) have mercilessly butchered it before he could even get started. For the life of me I cannot understand why people are so determined to keep someone from trying. Are you scared he might actually do something you didn''t have the b*lls to do? If he tries, and can''t do it, what has he lost? Nothing. The more important question is, what has he gained? Surely knowledge.. and hopefully the pride that he at least tried when so many people don''t-- or won''t-- or can''t. I have been researching building an MMORPG for the past few months and am convinced that this can be done. It may not compete in size and scope with a commerical MMORPG developed by "40 designers and programmers", but it could be done on a small scale. If you get part of the way there (by building the infrastructure and a compelling design), people will bend over backwards to be a part of it. Look at this forum or any other and you will see hundreds of thousands of people that want to make the next great MMORPG. All it would take to turn these good people into designers and developers for your project would be for you to get them started with a good data-driven engine. Make no mistake, the development side is extremely complicated and time consuming, but the resources (sample code, SDKs, books, articles, etc.) you need are out there. I promise you this, we have it a HELLUVA lot easier than John Carmack did when he started his first 3D engine. It would be interesting to see how people would have reacted if he had confessed his dream to build a multiplayer 3D FPS when 288BPS (or <) modems were the norm and 3D cards were all-but non-existent. So basically I''m encouraging you all to ignore the naysayers. If you think you can do it, try. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If you want it bad enough, you will _eventually_ get it (as long as you are willing to pay the price). "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein bpopp (bpopp.net)

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The problem is, making MMORPG is something that can't be done alone. It requires teamwork. If you are the only developer, you will get bored of your MMORPG before you finish it.

Now, from all MMORPG threads that I have read, about 90% of those are in Help Wanted forum. These people who wants to make MMORPG requires help. Too bad, nobody wants to join because such thing is almost impossible to finish, especially for high school/college students or indie developers like us. Nobody wants to experience a failure project, they want something that's very possible to finish and publish, and MMORPG is not on the list.

If it's just you who make it, who cares? You are in charge of everything. But MMORPG is just too large for a single person.

[edited by - alnite on June 2, 2003 1:45:21 PM]

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Maybe they will only gain knowledge in the end, but many people, myself included, think a more effective way of gaining knowledge is not attempting an impossible project and giving up, but actually completing small projects, that get progressively more complex.

In the posts I''ve seen that you speak the person posting is generally someone who seems to have no idea about game development, and the people replying are more experienced, and are offering advice so that the person will not make a pretty big mistake (as harsh as some people may be about it.)

Yourself and John Carmack, I think are innaccurate examples, as you don''t seem to be inexperienced, and John Carmack surely wasn''t. I agree that an MMORPG is certainly possible, I think a member on these boards made one. But the people that get
"butchered" are unexperienced beginners.

That''s my take on it at least.

- Andrew

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I have no problem supporting that I think has the ability to make an MMPOG. The problem is, the vast majority of people on these forums that say "I''m making an MMPOG" don''t know the first thing about software development or project management. You see far too many kids saying "I want to make this MMPOG", but they then ask silly questions like "I''m getting this error when I run my program" and they give an include error from Visual Studio. It''s not difficult to put 2 and 2 together from this to make 4 and know that they have 0 chance of succeeding. I once saw one MMPOG website proudly display that they would charge $9.95 a month to play their game, yet all they had were a couple of 3d models! Again, zero chance of succeeding.

MMPOGs are THE most difficult genre of game to build successfully. WHy do you think that even those on the market now suffered major technological setbacks and disasters? Because they''re extremely difficult to implement.

As you say, your game would not be on the scale of current commercial MMOGS, but then you''re not really talking about an MMPOG are you? You''re probably talking about a MPOG or something in between.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Also, many people asking for help have never done anything before. They want to program a MMORPG as their first project. I would argue by starting on a smaller project, they will learn even more in a shorter amount of time. Also, their is something to be said for looking back at your months/years worth of work and actually have a product to look at. If you plan to big, then you won''t have anything to admire, and will likely give up future endeavors more easily.

But, if they have experience completeing other projects, maybe said developer is ready for a MMORPG. They should just keep their expectation realistic.

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Hard, but possible.

Check out www.dransik.com...

They have pretty big *advanced* team doing it on their spare time. It took about 2 years to get even skills in the game. Huge work...

Here mmorpg has turned into swearword since script kiddles begin think they can program and once they know they can''t they become designers and spam, "Hay d00ds check out this unique idea!" at design forum or "plz halp me with mmorpg" at help wanted.

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Check out www.warriors2.com

It''s an MMORPG with 8218 active players created by a swedish guy, Zakarias Persson, that is actually beginning to pay off.

I don''t know him personally but I think he has taught himself gameprogramming and stuff, without higher education within CS.
Not the best or flashiest game out there but totaly addictive.

So keep your dreams alive because every obstacle will make you stronger.


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I have played MMOs since Meridian 59 and still play UO. I’ve also been involved with a company (as a founding member) working on an MMO... my distaste for this genre of games is marred by my experiences as a developer and as a player.

I will agree with you... MMORPG is not a dirty word. The problem with MMOs (IMHO) is that none of them are breaking new ground. Or, for me personally, none of the current games (save UO) contain elements that I find new and exciting. Sure the graphics of AC2 and Shadowbane are awesome but after the wow factor – I need something more that makes me want to play.

The problem with the industry is that once a game is successful – it is copied as many times as the mindless folks that purchase the games will continue purchasing the games. This isn’t a problem for most players who continue to buy the next game on the shelf but for independent developers seeking funding and showcasing a brand new true next generation game – it’s a big problem. Publishers are (and I understand why) afraid to take chances on these games – especially when the price tag is a cool 10 million dollars.

So, for me, a non-drone, the problem is that why do I want to quit playing UO to play the next new game that offers nothing in terms of game play over the game I enjoy?

Maybe the reason MMO(RPG)s have such a bad label is because so many of us find them to be terrible in terms of game play. Or maybe it’s because so many of us have bought that (supposed) next generation MMO only to find that it wasn’t even finished yet. Yes, many MMO developers are choosing to get the game out so that they can get a quick influx of cash so that they can finish the game – or at least attempt to finish the game. MMO(RPG) isn’t a bad word; It’s just a word that has a stigma attached to it from gamers, publishers and developers alike.




Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser

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Guest Anonymous Poster
To those that refuse to believe that a MMORPG can be built alone or with a small team <a href="http://www.dransik.com/classic>click here.</a> It may not be the best game ever created, but it is an MMORPG and it was created by only 3 people. I played it for awhile, but it go boring.

It''s got everything most really big MMORPGs have, the graphics just arent as good. The team is growing now, because more people are playing.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Ooops... didnt read the whole thing... someone already talked about Dransik...

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