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mmx87

iD .map format for levels? slow?

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I was thinking about using the iD .map format for my Two Towers demo, but I am having some doubts :/. 1. Would iD sue my pants off? (for using their .map file format) 2. With a lack of some sort of culling system (such as BSP; but that wont work because of .map file format), would my demo be fast? 3. Would fogged outdoor areas be bearable on the demo''s target hardware? (450MHz CPU w/ TnT2) The reason I want to use the .map format is that I can use Valve Hammer Editor to make levels...Alot easier than .3ds. (and cheaper too) Any feedback is appreciated. mmx87

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1. Well, I am not sure that id would sue your pants off, but they might. lol. Well, I don't actually think they care, as long as you are making no money off of it.
2. About the culling, you could easily implement your own culling sys. Look up octrees and such. There is a good tut at http:\\www.gametutorials.com.
3. I think the fogged outdoor areas would be bearable if u did implement your own culling. Also depends on the size of the scene and what effetct are being implemented(other than fog oe course). Also, I think fog may speed things up. It has for me in the past.


[edited by - tHiSiSbOb on June 17, 2003 1:05:22 AM]

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Hrm..looks like if I do this demo now I want have any pants to wear...hehe .

Oh and about culling systems, are portals a good way to go?

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the thing about map files is they dont contain all the face data and some of the faces may overlap. that why they are converted and optimised into there retrospected formats like .bsp

in fact if memory serves they contain no face data they only contain ''brushes''.

If its just a demo you making use quake 2 bsp. its easy enough to load and id wont mind you using it. heck there are enough quake 2 bsp loaders out there

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1. No, iD software have no patents on their file formats, so there are no problems using them, however, you cannot use their tools. Since you are interested in using Valve''s Hammer Editor, i''d be more worried about *them* suing you, however they would probably not if it is not for commercial purposes.

2. For small levels, not really, however as Zerosignull said, they are unoptimised, and contain alot of redundant data, it would be better to implement some form of compiler...

3. Yes, but it depends how you do them, and the culling system you implement, i would not recommend BSP for large outdoor areas.

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quote:
No, iD software have no patents on their file formats

You can''t have a patent on a file format.

I would not use the .map format at all, because the polygone soup is not organised in any way and there are lots of polygons that are facing outside of the world without culling them in the CSG process.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
ID Software is pretty cool about people using there formats. If you look on the web you can get many tutorials to read all the diffrent versions of there BSPs. As long as it remains open source, free, and you dont steal there code you should be fine. I am not sure if .map files are the same for all BSPs though. I know BSPs for Q1 Q2 Q3 and Half-life are all diffrent so befor you go and make your engine you should look into it. If your going to use Half-life stuff dl the Half-life source code off of gamespy. There are many editor for quake 3 BSPs though.

Nuke

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i am using .map files

i have written a compiler for worldcraft and gtk radiant .map files

both are different

i personally suggest you use GTK Radiant since its source code is available for download
and you can develop plugins for it
and it supports curved surfaces

and it also supports TGA textures and 131072*131072 units big maps

if you want ill add an option to my compiler to output text files instead of binary

it also has some hidden surface removal
not CSG but my own culling since i hate CSG (1. lots of unneeded data/polys and so on)

my HSR process just removed all faces with RMV textures or if faces are completely hidden by other brushes

only problem is it sometimes sorts 1 of 12000 faces wrong which seems to be a precision problem on which i am going to work

icq 82015598 if you want to use it

contact me and ill add the desired changes

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quote:
Original post by noVum
You can''t have a patent on a file format.



And what about .gif then? Its a patented file format.

-----------------------
"When I have a problem on an Nvidia, I assume that it is my fault. With anyone else''s drivers, I assume it is their fault" - John Carmack

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quote:
Original post by Maximus
And what about .gif then? Its a patented file format.



gif isnt patented, the compression technology they use is.
just like jpeg, mp3, etc....

-eldee
;another space monkey;
[ Forced Evolution Studios ]


::evolve::

Do NOT let Dr. Mario touch your genitals. He is not a real doctor!

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