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Moondoggy

Chess Question... Pawn to Queen!

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Sander    1332
Correct me if I''m wrong, but isn''t there some rule that you can only promote a pawn to a gueen if your original queen has been taken? It''s been a while since I played but I remember some rule like that. I don''t know if it applied to other pieces as well (I don''t believe so).

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Moondoggy    122
quote:
Original post by Sander
Isn''t there some rule that you can only promote a pawn to a gueen if your original queen has been taken?


No I dont think so... but then again I could be wrong also

____________________________
Moondoggy


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LordLethis    122
There is no such rule...
At least I never heard of that one and I do play chess...
For the blitz mode where one sec. blink time is too much: Why not stop the clock while letting the user chose?? However, I want to see you turn a pawn into another piece in one minute blitz mode

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Sander    1332
quote:
Original post by LordLethis
There is no such rule...
At least I never heard of that one and I do play chess...


AH! That means that my occasional chessparter has been decieving me! Last time I wanted a pawn for a queen and he said I couldn''t because I still had my original queen! Too bad because it I would have had the extra queen I would have beaten him. Now it resulted in a tie grrrrr.....



Sander Maréchal
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Code-Junkie    122
What you were asking makes sense Sander. If all you have lost is a couple pawns, a rook, and a bishop, how can one of them be transformed into a Queen? Do you just put the rook (or whatever piece you want) on the board and say "it''s a queen", and then try to remember it''s a queen the rest of the game? That doesn''t sound right to me, and I''ve never seen a chess set that came with extra queens just for piece promotion purposes. I''m not a chess expert, but just calling it a queen does not sound logical to me.

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Yohumbus    152
Why not have the best of both worlds and have serveral smaller pieces in the square and they click on the one they want?

[edited by - Yohumbus on June 23, 2003 12:14:42 PM]

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RPGeezus    216
quote:
Original post by Code-Junkie
What you were asking makes sense Sander. If all you have lost is a couple pawns, a rook, and a bishop, how can one of them be transformed into a Queen? Do you just put the rook (or whatever piece you want) on the board and say "it''s a queen", and then try to remember it''s a queen the rest of the game? That doesn''t sound right to me, and I''ve never seen a chess set that came with extra queens just for piece promotion purposes. I''m not a chess expert, but just calling it a queen does not sound logical to me.


It is legal to have more than one queen.

If you only have 1 queen piece, use an upside down rook, a penny, or pocket-lint. Whatever works.

Cheers,
Will

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Code-Junkie    122
Thanks for the insight Will. I never knew you could have more than one queen. Still seems a bit odd to me, but the rules are the rules. Once again I learn something new. Thanks.

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Jason Doucette    122
I recommend allowing all options. It will only be an extra 3 possible moves, and since the Queen is worth much more than the other 3 possible pieces, then these moves should be cut off very quickly with the alpha-beta search, especially if you have move-ordering implemented. It will not slow down the search a significant amount. I would suspect that not checking for stalemate would be the best way for a quick speed up if you are looking to remove weird rules that do not happen often (of course, stalemate happens much more often than a promotion to Knight outperforming a Queening move).

Jason Doucette - online resume page: www.jasondoucette.com
projects / games, real-time graphics, artificial intelligence, world records, wallpapers / desktops / backgrounds
"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." - Anna Eleanor Roosevelt, 1884-1962

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ah_bk88    122
I''m sticking with the idea of having the knight and queen morphing back and forth and letting the player click on it to choose. No popups, but no forced decision.

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Ferretman    276
quote:
Original post by Moondoggy
I think this is an AI specific question, but I will ask it anyway. (feel free to move the post if it is in the wrong forum)

I just want to know: if in a game of chess when you reach the other side of the board with a pawn, is there any specific situation or reason why you would not want to turn the pawn into a queen but another piece?

I want to know because in my program I don’t want to bother with asking the player what piece they want to change into, (more code!) but instead always change into a queen.




Yes it''s got to be rare, but yes I''d always (and I do mean ALWAYS) ask the player what they want. It''s trivial to do and examples have been cited here about situtations where one did in fact want something else.




Ferretman

ferretman@gameai.com
www.gameai.com
From the High Mountains of Colorado

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haro    502
quote:
Original post by LordLethis
There is no such rule...
At least I never heard of that one and I do play chess...
For the blitz mode where one sec. blink time is too much: Why not stop the clock while letting the user chose?? However, I want to see you turn a pawn into another piece in one minute blitz mode


One minute blitz is generally called bullet or lightning and promotion is typical between strong players who do more than just hoping their opponent''s run out of time. Look at bullet games of Roland Schmaltz, Larry Christiansen, etc.. for plenty of examples. Also stopping the clock is not an option. How many hundreds of games I could have saved if I just had a few more seconds to calculate is incalculable.

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Raloth    379
Yes, definately give the player a choice. I once saw a great AI (or what I thought was). It had like 4 queens against the other guy's single king and went to go get another one... It ended in a stalemate when it would have been a checkmate had it gotten a knight.

[edit] choicee isn't a word

[edited by - Raloth on June 23, 2003 11:20:15 PM]

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quote:
Original post by Moondoggy
Sneftel - that is what I am asking, is there some really good reason for not choosing a queen, like afterburn said "he traded a pawn for a rook to get checkmate" surely checkmate could then have been achieved with a queen instead of a rook as she has all the moves a rook has and more.




The Queen can't move like a knight, and it is fine to have more than one queen, the knight may be exactly what's neeeded to win.

[Edit]: I meant to say knight and I said rook... when I was reading rook I was thinking knight. oops

Moo moo MOO moo moo


[edited by - Bovine Supremacy NOW on June 24, 2003 8:59:35 AM]

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Russell    118
quote:
Original post by Bovine Supremacy NOW
The Queen can''t move like a rook, and it is fine to have more than one queen. Maybe you should look up the official rules.
Ahem...maybe YOU should read the rules, because a queen CAN move just like a rook (and then some).

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I personaly like the idea of a pop up screen that lets you choose in the format like this



Chess Peice

<- ->
OK

The idea is to have the chess peice spinning in the position marked Chess Peice and when an arrow is clicked the next peice takes its place. When you hit the Confirm button it oks your choice with a pop up window asking Do you want to choose the Queen.

I know this is work but work is good for you. You dont want a crappy Game do you

if I need help, alot of help;
goto forum

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Sander    1332
quote:
Original post by Code-Junkie
What you were asking makes sense Sander. If all you have lost is a couple pawns, a rook, and a bishop, how can one of them be transformed into a Queen? Do you just put the rook (or whatever piece you want) on the board and say "it''s a queen", and then try to remember it''s a queen the rest of the game? That doesn''t sound right to me, and I''ve never seen a chess set that came with extra queens just for piece promotion purposes. I''m not a chess expert, but just calling it a queen does not sound logical to me.

I have 3 sets of chess pieces so queens to spare Anyway, next time I play chess against my friend I am definately going to get the extra queens.



Sander Maréchal
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Moondoggy    122
quote:
Original post by Raloth
I once saw a great AI (or what I thought was). It had like 4 queens against the other guy''s single king and went to go get another one... It ended in a stalemate when it would have been a checkmate had it gotten a knight.



Surely that must have been the WORST AI ever, against a single king checkmate is easy with just 2 queens, or even 2 rooks.

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Jason Doucette    122
Speaking of terrible AI - some problems can crop up easier than you think causing your program to look retarded. For example, I remember the old Chess88 game I used to play, it would quit its search as soon as it found mate, so this introduced a problem of repetition of position (since it did not check for this - this is another thing your program should have), because sometimes the first mate a program finds is not the quickest mate (especially due to search extensions from checking), so I could routinely draw against it, and it would announce a ''mate in 2'' every move (back when I had just learned the rules of chess, as the program is not very hard to beat).

Jason Doucette - online resume page: www.jasondoucette.com
projects / games | real-time graphics | artificial intelligence | world records | wallpapers / desktops / backgrounds
"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." - Anna Eleanor Roosevelt, 1884-1962

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dagarach    169
quote:
Original post by Code-Junkie
What you were asking makes sense Sander. If all you have lost is a couple pawns, a rook, and a bishop, how can one of them be transformed into a Queen? Do you just put the rook (or whatever piece you want) on the board and say "it''s a queen", and then try to remember it''s a queen the rest of the game?


Often, players will place an inverted rook and call it queen, sometimes you can get collars to put on the pawn, or possibly just use a coin instead of a piece.

If you think about your proposition, what should happen if the promoting player has not lost any major pieces? Are you suggesting that they are not permitted to promote at all?

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