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spetnaz_

i need a little bit on JAVA

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sorry, this is not really to do with OpenGL or C++, but i downloaded Java Book from http://www.programmers-unlimited.com/books/ and well it just dives into programming in Java, but it does not talk about what compilers you need and where to get them. do u guys know where i could get a free compiler, i looked on the Sun web site but there stuff is not free. can some one please point in the right direction. i had a quick look through the book at it basicly C++ with out pointers

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are you gonna use java and openGL? if u are, plz tell me how it works out for ya.

(my teachers want me to do a project next year, using openGL and sockets to create a 3D interface for a multimedia webbroadcasting system. Originally they wanted me to do it using java, but i wanted to do it in c++, since I thought it would be way harder in java)

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well i looked through the java books at http://www.programmers-unlimited.com/books/ and i havent seen any OpenGL, but i havent looked at all the java books there. I would still recommend doing any real time rendering stuff like DX or GL in C++ or C as they are wwwaaayyy faster, plus they have pointers and references (dont know about C but c++ deffinetly).

I recommend u look at http://www.programmers-unlimited.com/books/ fully and visit a good java forum, as i am only going to fool around with Java, not develop proper applications, i leave that to Visual C++.

SORRY

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Lets not start another Java vs C++ flame thread.

Basically it''s up to you on what you want to use. Some people say it''s slow, some say that the speed decrease is bearable with today''s fast processors.

Try out a simple application and see how much slower it really is and make your decision, some people dislike even a little slowdown and would prefer c++ over java.

As for the topic,the java sdk is free but it''s console based(It was when i used it), meaning you have to use command prompt to compile and run your programs.

But Borland has release JBuilder Personal edition for free and i highly reccommend it if you are using java. It has alot of features and does alot of syntax error checking in realtime even b4 you compile your code and this can be a real timesaver.

In my opinion it is a slightly better compiler than VC++ because of all it''s wonderful features, though i prefer to program in c++.

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I don''t know if JBuilder Personal is free, but there are some other good IDEs out there. I use RealJ, which is free and works great, though I''m sure it''s not as fully featured as JBuilder.

tj963

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so what is the point of Java, it has practicly the same syntax as C++, but it is slower so why? I know that it is slightly more OOP, but so what, you can have OOP with any high level language, VB, C++, Delphi, Java...

[edited by - spetnaz_ on July 5, 2003 2:07:38 PM]

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quote:
Original post by spetnaz_
so what is the point of Java, it has practicly the same syntax as C++, but it is slower so why? I know that it is slightly more OOP, but so what, you can have OOP with any high level language, VB, C++, Delphi, Java...


Please refrain from commenting on issues you clearly don''t know anything about. That is how flamewars start.



AnkhSVN - A Visual Studio .NET Addin for the Subversion version control system.

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C++, Delphi, Java, etc are High level languages. This is all well and good for the average programmer. Here are the highlights of each (the short version).

Highlights:
C++ (and C) run faster than any other language.

Delphi is easier to code than C/C++.

Java is platform independent.

Downsides:
C++ is (one of) the hardest programming languages.

Delphi has more built in bounds checking than C/C++ and therefore runs a tad slower (not always a good thing for games).

Java is not compiled into machine code by the compiler. Every single time a line of code is run the processor first has to translate it to machine code and then run it. This is why it is slow

I''m not trying to help start a flame war, I feel that I was pretty fair to all the programming languages I mentioned above. Besides, who knows, I was impressed by an OpenGL demo I saw for Perl awhile ago on the NeHe site....who knows what works best until it is tried?

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Some time back there was a thread regarding using Java for games. A flame war errupted with Java supporters against people who disliked using java in speed critical applications like games.

I cant seem to find the thread, perhaps it was deleted.

Anyway a flame war is started by a thread in which an endless debate goes on over a topic. Anyway i don''t think it is possible to change someone''s thinking through forums alone. While i have heard so much about java and what it can do, the most advanced game i have seen in java is runescape. It is in a way the most advanced game you could play in your browser window.I have seen a similar concept MMORPG implemented in flash(I''m serious). The flash version was in 2d but was plagued with horrible server lag.

Anyway here is the link to the best Free Java Compiler
http://www.borland.com/jbuilder/personal/index.html



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yeah I did read all the posts. I just thought it would be fun to see if I could get any reaction. but I guess no.

If you want a free java 'ide' that isn't really suited to large projects, crashes a lot, uses a hang of a lot of system resources and generally annoys you in ever thing it does, take a look at blue-j, it does do UML quite nicly, and is good for learning. Otherwise though, your mostly out of luck unless of course you go for j-builder as mentioned...

On the other hand, if your only just starting out, you should consider C# insted. Bloddy excellent language I must say. Very much Java but better. 'Sharp develop' is an C# ide you can free with the .net frame work, a Bloody excellent ide at that too. ::momo or Rotor if your on lin/mac as well.

I dunno. I guess it's just I've had to work with Java a lot over the last 3 or so years and since I've been using C# it's been something of a "why the hell didn't sun do this?!" feeling all along...

Anyway. It's up to you. this is just my most likly biased opinion.

| - Project-X - my mega project.. getting there... - | - adDeath - | - email me - |

[edited by - RipTorn on July 6, 2003 3:26:42 AM]

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It appears alot of institutions are switching from C++ to Java. I was never happy with this decision right from the start. But most institutions are making the change because of the demand for Java in developing Web applications and Web services for which there is a far higher demand then game programmers.

There isn''t even a game developer which develops games for the PC or Consoles in my country so i can understand the reason for the change.

But in the end it doesnt really make that much of a difference, Java''s syntax was designed to be as similar as C++, so the only new thing i had to learn when switching to C++ was pointers and using delete and deconstructors.

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