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EvilKind

Visual Studio.Net 2003 or Visual Studio 6.0?

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EvilKind    122
Is there any benefit in using Visual Studio.Net 2003 over Visual Studio 6.0 for game programming or C++ programming? I have notice that there are no wizards for making a direct-x app like the doc states for Visual Studio 6.0. Are missing features and problems common when using Visual Studio.Net 2003 or is it something I have done or not done. I would like to know of your experiences between the two if possible. Cheers!

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Eponick    127
Ive never used VS.Net but ive been using VS6 for over a year now and its doing fine =)

Also, Visual Assist for VC++ 6 is a very good thing to have, do a search for it on google.

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Sneftel    1788
.NET is more standards-compliant. It has a much better optimizing compiler. It has a more polished IDE. It is better integrated with source code control systems. It has a better STL. In short, it is teh r0x0r. I would never go back to 6.0.

I''m not sure if there are directX wizards in .NET.... I assume there are. But, really, the wizard does 0.01% of the work of making a game engine.... it really doesn''t matter whether it has one or not.


How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

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EvilKind    122
Cheers, that''s the reassurance for VS.Net I wanted. I never used VS 6.0 much as I upgraded pretty quick to VS.Net. I asked because 99% of what I read is for VS 6.0 and it seems more hassle with VS.Net settings.

The reason I wanted to see the app wizard was because I am interested in how direct-x sets up the window. The dirct-x demos have the option for video settings and I wanted to do the same. Is there a demo/source just on this somewhere?

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Impossible    134
Pretty much everything that has been said is true. VS. NET is overall an improvement over VS 6. Some people don''t like the new IDE, but that could just be a matter of not liking change. One of the biggest problems with the IDE is that it''s a lot slower than the VC6 IDE. Most of it is implemented with .NET instead of MFC. If you have a fast machine this isn''t a problem at all, but on slower machines it can be annoying.

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shurcool    439
which is exactly why i put VC 6.0 on this old 233 mhz laptop, and will put .NET 2k3 on my desktop whenever i free some hdd space...

edit: also, wanted to add... whoever said this was right, VC 6.0 isn't all that 100% compliant... it has to do w/ streams and deconstruction order. usually this won't affect many, but it really screwed up logging system in my prev engine attempt. basically, i had it destroy a singleton atexit() and when atexit() would call the destructor, the streams would already be destroyed (when they shouldn't have been yet) and i coldn't get time/date properly for my log. the way i fixed it was by getting some lib replacement for std streams. =\ not pretty.

if u want, i can give u some source to show u this.

---
shurcool
wwdev


[edited by - shurcooL on July 7, 2003 5:32:16 PM]

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3dOptics    275
If you are a student you could go to the website below to get a copy of Visual Studio.net 2003. You need proof you are a student. Visual Studio.net 2003 retails for over $1,000 but if you are a student you could buy the Academic version. The Academic version cost(check out the website below) about $85.95 which is very cheap and it has all the features of VS.net 2003 Pro . I plan on buying a copy myself when I go to college. I had doubts about buying a Academic version but I noticed a website where a guy emailed Microsoft about the license and they said its has the same license as a retail copy. That means you can use it for commercial puporses as far as I know.

http://www.academicsuperstore.com/market/marketdisp.html?PartNo=632673&




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Galapaegos    277
To go against all the others, I have had nothing but problems with Visual Studio .NET Pro and Academic 2003. I''ve used both, Pro was for a programming competition and I had it crash at least once everytime I used it, although I think the main reason it crashed was because we were using managed C++. I''m using Academic now and I haven''t had many problems with it other than its really slow and it took about an hour and a half to two hours to install. People say it has a better optimizer than VC 6, but I haven''t seen that. The managed programs we made were on average about 5x bigger than the source we ported from.

Of course make your own decision about it, but I always feel more comfortable with VC 6 than .NET.

Brad

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sjelkjd    171
quote:
Original post by Galapaegos The managed programs we made were on average about 5x bigger than the source we ported from.

You''re comparing apples to oranges. What you should be comparing is unmanaged c++ in 2003 to unmanaged c++ in 6.0

I''ve noticed that executables in 2003 tend to be much smaller than their older counterparts.

If at all possible, get visual studio 2003. 6.0 feels barbaric after using it =)

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earl3982    100
quote:
Original post by CH
If you are a student you could go to the website below to get a copy of Visual Studio.net 2003. You need proof you are a student. Visual Studio.net 2003 retails for over $1,000 but if you are a student you could buy the Academic version. The Academic version cost(check out the website below) about $85.95 which is very cheap and it has all the features of VS.net 2003 Pro . I plan on buying a copy myself when I go to college. I had doubts about buying a Academic version but I noticed a website where a guy emailed Microsoft about the license and they said its has the same license as a retail copy. That means you can use it for commercial puporses as far as I know.

http://www.academicsuperstore.com/market/marketdisp.html?PartNo=632673&



u might want to check with your university first, because some universities have some deal with microsoft that lets students get their software for free, i have it here, at georgia tech. its called MSDNAA, microsoft developers network academic alliance. i get free copies of everything,

Microsoft .NET Component Update CD
Microsoft .NET Framework SDK
Microsoft Data Analyzer
Microsoft DirectX 8.0a SDK
Microsoft eMbedded Visual Tools 3.0 - Disc 1
Microsoft eMbedded Visual Tools 3.0 - Disc 2
Microsoft Exchange 2003 Beta 2
Microsoft Glossaries, SDKs and Tools
Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.0
Microsoft MSDE for Visual Studio 6.0
Microsoft MSDN Library 6.0a (Full)
Microsoft MSDN Subscriptions Library (Disc 1)
Microsoft MSDN Subscriptions Library (Disc 2)
Microsoft MSDN Subscriptions Library (Disc 3)
Microsoft MSDN Subscriptions Library (Full)
Microsoft Platform SDK (June 2001)
Microsoft PLUS!98
Microsoft Project Professional 2002 (Single-User)
Microsoft SharePoint Portal Server 2001
Microsoft SQL Server 2000 Developer Edition
Microsoft SQL Server 2000 Enterprise Edition
Microsoft Systems Management Server 2.0 SP 2 ICP5
Microsoft Systems Management Server 2.0 SP 3
Microsoft Systems Management Server 2.0 SP 3 ICP5
Microsoft Visio Professional 2002 (Single User)
Microsoft Visual J++ 6.0
Microsoft Visual SourceSafe 6.0c
Microsoft Visual Studio 6 Pro (Full Download)
Microsoft Visual Studio 6 Pro - Disc 1
Microsoft Visual Studio 6 Pro - Disc 2
Microsoft Visual Studio 6 SP 5
Microsoft Windows 2000 Customer Support Diagnostics Tools
Microsoft Windows 2000 DDK October 2000 Edition
Microsoft Windows 2000 Developer"s Readiness Kit
Microsoft Windows 2000 Server ResKit
Microsoft Windows 2000 SP 2
Microsoft Windows 98 DDK
Microsoft Windows 98 Resource Kit
Microsoft Windows CE .NET - Disc 1
Microsoft Windows CE .NET - Disc 2
Microsoft Windows CE .NET - Disc 3
Microsoft Windows CE .NET - Disc 4
Microsoft Windows CE .NET - Disc 5
Microsoft Windows CE .NET - Disc 6
Microsoft Windows Component Update for Visual Studio .NET
Microsoft Windows DDK (October 2000)
Microsoft Windows Me
Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX 3.0
MSDE for Visual Studio 6.0 Developer
MSDN Library - April 2003 (Disc 1)
MSDN Library - April 2003 (Disc 2)
MSDN Library - April 2003 (Disc 3)
MSDN Library - April 2003 (Full)
MSDN Library - April 2003 (Full) (Japanese)
Platform SDK (February 2003)
Visual SourceSafe 6.0d
Visual Studio .NET Academic Faculty Tools
Visual Studio .NET Academic Student Tools
Visual Studio .NET Academic Student Tools 2003
Visual Studio .NET Pro 2002 - ISO Image - CD1
Visual Studio .NET Pro 2002 - ISO Image - CD2
Visual Studio .NET Pro 2002 - ISO Image - CD3
Visual Studio .NET Pro 2002 - ISO Image - CD4
Visual Studio .NET Pro 2002 - ISO Image - CD5
Visual Studio .NET Professional 2002 (Full)
Visual Studio .NET Professional 2003 - ISO Image - CD1
Visual Studio .NET Professional 2003 - ISO Image - CD2
Visual Studio .NET Professional 2003 Prerequisites Disc - ISO Image
Windows .NET Beta 3 Driver Development Kit
Windows 2000 Advanced Server - ISO Image
Windows 2000 Professional - ISO Image
Windows 2000 Server - ISO Image
Windows Hardware Compatibility Test Kit 11.0 Beta 1
Windows Logo Hardware Compatibility Test Kit for Windows Me version 9.6
Windows Logo Hardware Compatibility Test Kit for Windows XP Version 11.1
Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition
Windows Server 2003 System Resource Manager
Windows Server 2003 Web Edition
Windows Server 2003 Web Edition - VL
Windows XP Embedded
Windows XP Professional (Single User) ISO Image

there is a list.

its just too bad that i like developing on linux instead

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3dOptics    275
MSDNAA license agreement

"Use" shall mean the non-commercial use of the Product by Faculty, Staff and/or Students solely to: (a) develop, support, and conduct educational classes, labs or related programs offered by Qualified Educational User which have been approved for participation in the MSDN Academic Alliance Program; (b) conduct non-commercial research projects utilizing the Product (note: research done on behalf of the National Science Foundation or the U.S. Government qualifies as "non-commercial" research); and/or (c) design, develop and test software applications or hardware that work in conjunction with the Product only for the purposes as listed in Section 1.5(a) or 1.5(b). "Use" under this Amendment shall not include the use of the Product for general business purposes other than by Qualified Educational User''s employees engaged in support and user support of the Product and the management of compliance with the MSDN Academic Alliance Program.

Yes you do get the software free but you cant use it for commercial use, well if you follow the law. The Academic version I listed in my last post can be used for commercial purposes. Take a look at the website below.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~lkstitch/text/mspirate.html


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I''m using Visual Studio .Net Enterprise Developer and I preffer it to VC6. However I think the lack of a profiler in VC .NET is very annoying as I have to download a third-party one and I haven''t find a free one yet...

"C lets you shoot yourself in the foot rather easily. C++ allows you to reuse the bullet!"

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d000hg    1199
quote:
Original post by Eponick
Ive never used VS.Net but ive been using VS6 for over a year now and its doing fine =)

Also, Visual Assist for VC++ 6 is a very good thing to have, do a search for it on google.

I found a site when searching for this but not the actual tool - what is it and can you give an exact url anyone for it?
Thanks





Read about my game, project #1
NEW (18th December)2 new screenshots, one from the engine and one from the level editor



John 3:16

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bpopp    122
The only downside to using .NET (that I''ve seen) is that your projects will not be directly usable to the heaps of VC6 users out there. Converting from 6 to 2003 seems to work perfectly, but going backwards isn''t possible (AFAIK). Fortunately, you can easily run both versions at the same time.

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Sneftel    1788
quote:
Original post by ShlomiSteinberg
I''m using Visual Studio .Net Enterprise Developer and I preffer it to VC6. However I think the lack of a profiler in VC .NET is very annoying as I have to download a third-party one and I haven''t find a free one yet...
You must not have looked very hard, then, especially since the product box comes with a little flyer advertising the profiler.


How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

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gpalin    164
quote:
Original post by earl3982
Visual Studio .NET Pro 2002 - ISO Image - CD1
Visual Studio .NET Pro 2002 - ISO Image - CD2
Visual Studio .NET Pro 2002 - ISO Image - CD3
Visual Studio .NET Pro 2002 - ISO Image - CD4
Visual Studio .NET Pro 2002 - ISO Image - CD5



What is an "ISO Image"?



Grant Palin

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shurcool    439
iso is basically an image of the cd... like if someone were to take a photo of it. it stores everything there is about the cd, so that u could duplicate it based on this cd image. of course, some cd copy protection methods will still differ a copied cd from the original, most of the time, it will produce an identical copy. in most burning software, u can burn a cd from a cd image. u just point to the .iso (or .cue, etc. there are quite a few formats), and it''ll do everything else by itself.

ps. the only reason i''m saying this is because i have nothing to do atm, and i feel like answering this. next time, however, do the right thing and google it, like the previous post said. <3

---
shurcool
wwdev

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quote:
Original post by Sneftel
quote:
Original post by ShlomiSteinberg
I''m using Visual Studio .Net Enterprise Developer and I preffer it to VC6. However I think the lack of a profiler in VC .NET is very annoying as I have to download a third-party one and I haven''t find a free one yet...
You must not have looked very hard, then, especially since the product box comes with a little flyer advertising the profiler.


How appropriate. You fight like a cow.



I couldn''t find a profiler anywhere!? Are you sure there is a profiler?

"C lets you shoot yourself in the foot rather easily. C++ allows you to reuse the bullet!"

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Sneftel    1788
quote:
Original post by ShlomiSteinberg
I couldn''t find a profiler anywhere!? Are you sure there is a profiler?

"C lets you shoot yourself in the foot rather easily. C++ allows you to reuse the bullet!"

Yeah, there''s a flyer in the product box that gives you the web address to download it. It''s made by CompuWare.


How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

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