Bah that topic should've been: Movie & game should be combined to create a perfect gaming experience. You know how hard it is to create a deep RPG/First person game that has a complicated world and much stuff that the player should understand and be aware of. Normally a player is just thrown in some strange environment with no background or knowledge of the world where (s)he is. This is why a movie and a game should be combined so that when you start the game you would have to watch a full 90-120 minutes long movie that would have a full story and it would be quite interesting also. But the movie wouldn't have a proper ending. Then you would understand lots about the world (if the movie is made right) and you would immediately know your attitude/position towards the world when the game-part begins. And the game-part would actually finish the movie, depending on your desicions and actions. However the player you actually control in the game should not be shown in the movie-part, because this would make the game too objective and you wouldn't make the desicions like you normally would (if you controlled the movie's hero, you would try to act like the hero in the movie, which is bad). The player you play with should be thrown in the movie during the last moments of it. Then the actual game-part would start. And the movie can be done with the game's own 3d-engine, because 3d-engines can already show enough details. This way the movie-part would be cheaper to make and it would look the same as the game (=good thing). You could see many of the same places where you play, already in the movie. I know there are many game's that are based on movies, like the Bladerunner & Terminator & Die hard & James Bond etc... But the movie-part should be made in tight co-operation with the game-part, so that the plot would be continuous and clever. The movie-part would be there to make you understand and get you in to the game's world, not just for a good movie experience. -Hans Edited by - Hans on 6/19/00 9:32:33 AM

I like the idea about having movies tied in tightly with the actual game but there are a few draw backs to having full length movies. The first and most obvious one would be that a player probably doesn''t want to sit at their computer for an hour or two just watching a movie about the game they are about to play. Most people just want to load it up, hit New Game and be on their way. I mean, how many people even read the manual the first time they try a game? They just dive right in.

Most people would just skip the movie and therefore the company that is making the game would not see it as a valuable asset for the game to have and therefore would cut it out. They would probably not want to spend the time and resources on making the movie as well. If something about the game changed, like the main character is a girl now instead of a guy, the entire movie is scrapped and has to be done again.

The second thing would be that it would require a huge amount of space to store the movie, even if it was done in the games 3d engine. If you have an hour and a half movie at the beginning and say 5 hours of movie through-out the game ( thats a very small amount for what you are talking about) that would probably require almost an entire CD probably just for the scripting of it. That just increase''s the companies cost because they now have to ship an additional CD with every game they sell and they also have to hire people to make the movie and what-not. Also, much like a lot of people, I hate changing CD''s in the middle of the game. It just seems to interrupt play when a pop-up saying "Insert Movie CD #2 Into CD Drive" pop-ups right after an intense battle with a major character. It just ruins the whole mood that the battle put you in.

Another thing of importance is the different movies that would be required. Let''s say someone tried your idea of having movies through out the game based on what the player is doing. You are looking at hundred''s if not thousands of movies that need to be created and incorporated into the game. This add''s a lot of time that the player is just sitting there watching stuff wizz by on the screen. I know when I am playing a game and I am watching a movie and I start to lose interest, I just click it away and be on my way. I have never seen an in-game movie that has been able to hold my attention for more than 5 minutes in total. That may be just me but I don''t know.

But I am not trying to put you down at all, I am just pointing out a few things that came to mind when I read your post. I do like the idea about tying movies and other things into the game more. Whenever I start a new game that I just got, I see a movie and than go into the game and I have no clue how the movie relates to the actual game. I mean, there is a story about the characters history and all this stuff and than inside the game, we never need the history. It just seems pointless to me. What I think would be a neat idea for someone to try is to get speech through out the game. Just thoughts that the player may have. Like say you are walking in a forest or something, the character could make a comment on how scary/beautiful the forest looks at night or whatever. It would add a little more realism to the character because they would seem real. Everyone makes little comments to ourselfs every second of the day, when we walk around, when we sit down. I would like to see that implemented in a game.

Thats my 2 cents anyways.

Shawn ( aka Spanky )

If the movie is good, I would . I mean that many gamers like to watch movies, at least I do . Then why wouldn''t I watch a movie that comes with a game?

And the movie would of course use as much memory as the game, since they use the same engine. The movie wouldn''t really have to look any better than the game itself, if the plot is clever.

Of course you can make it an avi, but if you don''t use dvd''s the quality of a 120 min-movie is horrible.


-Hans

Some of my favorite games have had some incredible movie sequences. The biggest ones that come to mind are the last three Wing Commander games.

Each of these games have a 10-15 minute intro, followed by cut-scenes that build the story through-out the game.

Of course, having these scenes really add to the game size (5-6 CD''s or so). I seem to remember that the budget for WC4 was somewhere around $10 million. If a full length movie was put into a game, what would the production cost be?

Since the game would not get theater revenues (like full length movies), the cost would have to be put into the game. I believe that the game industry still has a quite a low sales volume compared to movies. So, the game would probablly sell for $200 per copy or more.

Based on this, I don''t really think we will see any full length movies in our games for some time (if ever). But it''s nice to dream about it.

Note: If anyone out there has Wing Commander 4, play it and see if you recognize who is playing the Catscratch character. It''s a young Marc Ducacos (forgive my spelling) from the TV Series the Crow.

ARGH I wrote a huge reply and then Netscape crashed.. I wonder if it would help if I sent a couple of bombs (real bombs I mean) to Netscapes headquarters!

Well anyway here''s a summary :

Spanky: if the movie is very important to the game, you''ll HAVE to watch it. Otherwise you''ll be complitely lost. And about that cd-changing: one cd=movie, one cd=game. So you don''t have to change too often (only once per game). And there would be only one movie in the game, the 2-hour-long introduction movie. No ingame movies. No history needed? If the game is deeper than Quake & Half-life, it is vital to know about the political situation of the game (sounds boring? well gangs and corporations belong also under the word political ) and some general knowledge about the world.

Character talking to himself in a first person game? But why can''t you talk to yourself why you play the game? Why should the game character talk? (btw. Duke Nukem throws some comments in the game)

Ingenu: the movie should be made so objective that you could make your own desicions on who is good and who is bad. This is hard to archive though.

Movie made in eyes of a character? Sounds cool but could be pretty boring in practice. Wild camera action makes many movies alive .

borngamer: it''s cheap to make a movie if it uses the game''s 3d engine, the game''s graphics, the game''s models and so on. So no expensive actors a''la Wing Commander (mark hamill) needed. Only some more animating (lots actually) and a good writer to do the job. The real work would still be on the game itself.


And the introduction movie doesn''t have to have a hero of any kind. Some real movies also have many characters but none of them is a hero. The hero is the player, and he makes his first appearance at the end of the film. And then saves the world =) (or something like that)

Sorry didn''t mean to sound this rude but this is just a summary and I''m still pissed off because of Netscape. Thanks for the great replies, everyone.

-Hans

Landfish,
1- where the hell I''m gonna get me a Sega Saturn?-) Not to mention Panzer Dragoon?

2- well, I''m not the right guy to do a movie anyway, at least not yet . But there are however people that can write excellent 90 minute pieces (obviously) and one of those should be the one that does the movie. A real writer and a real director should be hired to do the job. Uh, again this idea is becoming more expensive..

And I''m not that much into splicing movies into the plot. That would mean the game would be quite linear, and I don''t like linear games very much (contrary to you, according to your "Linear Vs. Interactive!"-thread). If there''s only this opening movie, the game itself could be as non-linear as the gamemakers want.

Of course the gamemakers would focus mostly on the game, and the movie would be "just" an introduction. But it should be done well of course so that people wouldn''t just skip it.

--

But talking about character emotions in a 3d-engine, I think that emotions would be the best way to improve current 3d-engines (except if the engine is only used for killing-games). Many current 3d-engines can''t even make the characters open their lips! It would be really nice to see their eyebrows go up & down, their lips would turn into grinning & smiling positions and you could see their dimples . Boy would that add much emotion to the game! And adding some environment-mapped tear-drops in sad places.. The current computers are capable to do this, but no-one has done this to a game yet (as far as I recall). Ah well, 3d-engines aren''t that wildly used in adventure/rp-games anyway.


-Hans