Does it make you cry...
or just scared...
the hard thing is to make player cry...
because happy or sad...
games that make you cry!!
you understood at least 2/3 of my post ... and everything you all have been talking about is valid and interesting ... but let me repeat one thing I think is helpfull when trying to talk about these issues ...
in my way of viewing the world ... attempting to evoke emotion such as laughter and tears ... these are NOT "game" elements ... these are "story" elements.
don''t take this the wrong way .. just as all genres of books and games run together ... so to do games and stories run together ... there is nothing wrong with a computer "game" which has a story line, or story elements which evoke tears ... I''m just saying ... when acedemically picking apart this topic to understand it ... the areas you are talking about are "story" areas ... there is also a third type of thing "sport" ....
GAME - is about choices within a framework to achieve maximal or desired results.
STORY - is about the emotional connection between people and othe people''s experience (even if they are pretend).
SPORT - is basically the same as game, except game is mental, sport is physical ...
i know I didn''t do an adequate job defining them .. and my sport definition is lax because I have really forgotten the def I once heard ... but I think it is VERY usefull to break down elements of "game play" into there game and story components ... to better understand the game design you are making and what the user''s experience will (hopefully) be ...
note that "games" are repeatable ... nearly infinitely until the player is bored with the repetition of the patterns of the game ... "stories" are not really repeatable on the same scale ... usually there are from 1-3 views for each story ... and maybe 1-5 views if the story arc is variable ... after which, it would be too boring to repeat the nearly identical "game" yet again.
in my way of viewing the world ... attempting to evoke emotion such as laughter and tears ... these are NOT "game" elements ... these are "story" elements.
don''t take this the wrong way .. just as all genres of books and games run together ... so to do games and stories run together ... there is nothing wrong with a computer "game" which has a story line, or story elements which evoke tears ... I''m just saying ... when acedemically picking apart this topic to understand it ... the areas you are talking about are "story" areas ... there is also a third type of thing "sport" ....
GAME - is about choices within a framework to achieve maximal or desired results.
STORY - is about the emotional connection between people and othe people''s experience (even if they are pretend).
SPORT - is basically the same as game, except game is mental, sport is physical ...
i know I didn''t do an adequate job defining them .. and my sport definition is lax because I have really forgotten the def I once heard ... but I think it is VERY usefull to break down elements of "game play" into there game and story components ... to better understand the game design you are making and what the user''s experience will (hopefully) be ...
note that "games" are repeatable ... nearly infinitely until the player is bored with the repetition of the patterns of the game ... "stories" are not really repeatable on the same scale ... usually there are from 1-3 views for each story ... and maybe 1-5 views if the story arc is variable ... after which, it would be too boring to repeat the nearly identical "game" yet again.
quote:Original post by neurokaotix
I cried when I couldn''t save Meryl and she died in my arms atop Metal Gear Rex
I did too, I also cried when in FF7 *SPOILER* that mofo Sephiroth took out my baby-girl Aeris.
I think that to make the player cry. You really have to make them fall in love with one of the characters, and then have to tweak that emotion in a certain direction. The simplest way is to kill them off. But another great way is when everything works out perfectly, and the characters the player loves, love each other. i.e. when Meryl and Snake *SPOILER* rode off together into the sunset at the end of MGS. This didn''t get me crying, but it did create a sense of happiness that was nearly as moving. Another game that made me cry was when in FFX *SPOILER* Tidus was dissappearing, and Yuna ran to him, only to fall through him, and she lay prostrate on the ground. Funny thing is, I''ve never once went into tears during a movie. The closest I''ve ever came was when in Matrix Reloaded *SPOILER* Trinity was shot, and died in Neo''s arms. I believe this is the power that videogames have over movies and other forms of media. It''s easier to get into the game, and actually be affected by developments in the game, because they actually do effect the way you play the game. Rather in movies and television, you simply watch "other" people play out a story, and you don''t actually participate. Plus the fact that poor acting(keanu...you bastard!) can screw it up, whereas even the poor voice-acting in FFX couldn''t stop me from responding emotionally.
DON''T COPY THAT FLOPPY!
Slightly off topic but Does it annoy anyone else when story events and gameplay don''t match up. For instance if one of your characters gets stab and dies. Then you should die if you get stab in the game. And yet in most games you can 1000''s of points of damge and even if you die you use a simple item available at any general store and your perfectly healthy again.
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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document
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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document
quote:
Slightly off topic but Does it annoy anyone else when story events and gameplay don''t match up. For instance if one of your characters gets stab and dies. Then you should die if you get stab in the game. And yet in most games you can 1000''s of points of damge and even if you die you use a simple item available at any general store and your perfectly healthy again.
This annoyed me for a little while, especially with games like Final Fantasy. Then I noticed that they started using words like Swoon and Faint for "dead". This changed the dead state to an unconcious state, and mollified me quite a bit.
I like the idea that a character can be killed in a game but that it takes something exceptional. In FF usually when a major character dies it is to move the plot forward. This kind of distinction is important because if the Hero is killed then the plot ends (an ending to the game, but not a victorious one).
I would like to see more games like Fallout where there are fixed NPCs in the game and when they die they are gone, but you can still complete the game. It is also important to change the End Game sequences dramatically. If the "Hero" finishes the game, but lets the Princess die, through design, or by accident the game should not reward the hero with a victory story; but rather a "The Hero failed and became a drunken sot, forever trying to cope with his failures." type ending.
Actually I do become annoyed when the gameplay and story don''t match up in games. In FF7 I thought "Why doesn''t Cloud just use a pheonix down on Aeris?". It makes me ask "How does this differ from when I get stabbed or shot in combat and can just revive?" And the only answer I get from the designer is "Cause I said so!"
About crying in video games, I think it is possible but not widely saught after. I cannot remember ever feeling especially sad when playing a video game but I seem to remember a reletively sad part in MGS 2 when Otocon is talking about his sister. I think a game that could make me cry would be a great game to experience. The closest I''ve ever come to crying when experiencing any form of story was when watching Signs when the kid was dying in the basement. I was on the verge of tears. A very well done movie.
P.S. If you really want to make someone in a game cry, give them a weiner dog, and then make it betray them. *inside joke*
"It''s a sad, sad day when your own weiner dog betrays you..."
About crying in video games, I think it is possible but not widely saught after. I cannot remember ever feeling especially sad when playing a video game but I seem to remember a reletively sad part in MGS 2 when Otocon is talking about his sister. I think a game that could make me cry would be a great game to experience. The closest I''ve ever come to crying when experiencing any form of story was when watching Signs when the kid was dying in the basement. I was on the verge of tears. A very well done movie.
P.S. If you really want to make someone in a game cry, give them a weiner dog, and then make it betray them. *inside joke*
"It''s a sad, sad day when your own weiner dog betrays you..."
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