diplomatic AI?

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73 comments, last by vanevery0 19 years, 11 months ago
quote:Original post by fup
Like I said earlier I''ve never played the game of Diplomacy. I have a friend who is very keen though and the impression he gives of the game is one of much negotiation and discussion. Is this correct?


Yes, it''s mostly discussion. There are tactics, and in an endgame you can beat people by being superior at tactics, but in the opening and midgame I think it''s mostly down to diplomacy, not tactics. In the big picture, do you have too many enemies or not?

We have finally ended discussion on DIPAI due to this point. One guy who was doing a lot of talking wants to write a tactics AI first, sans diplomatic info, even though that''s probably billions and billions of move combinations to consider. I think that''s the wrong way to go about it. As far as I can see, Diplomacy games are primarily determined by your diplomatic decisions, and you need the diplomatic information to cut down on the complexity of your moves. So we''re each going to go our own ways. Apparently, in AI discussions it''s quite common to get to a loggerhead where you''ve got one idea about how to tackle a problem, someone else has got another, and each to their own way.

I''m going to be writing up a game that''s "much simpler than Diplomacy" in C# and .NET to test some ideas. Partly because I want to own my IP free and clear. Also, to pad my resume with some more current buzzwords. I''d prefer Python, but I''m living in Seattle and Microsoft is the only company with contractor gigs in a big way right now. I''ve avoided dealing with The Beast''s way of doing things and I''d never become their employee. But I''m not so stuck up that I''d avoid contracting for them, and hey I need the business.

I''m also somewhat assured that C# will probably make it outside of Windows-centric stuff in the near future. There''s a GNU project that has a C# compiler for instance, and an attempt to clone the .NET framework. C# actually looks like a decent language, pretty much a C++ with the headaches removed, some higher order primitives built in, and pretty good performance apparently. Python, in contrast, is a little too abstracted and bloated in how it deals with basic types, like floats and doubles. I like many things that Python has to offer, but as a 3D programmer the bloat is hard to swallow.

When I have this thingy together we''ll have a more tangible game design to discuss. I don''t promise to make any source code available. It depends on how the experiment goes.


Brandon Van Every, 3DProgrammer, Seattle, WA
20% of the world is real. 80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.
Cheers, Brandon J. Van Every(cruise (director (of SeaFunc) '(Seattle Functional Programmers)))
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Yes, it''s mostly discussion. There are tactics, and in an endgame you can beat people by being superior at tactics, but in the opening and midgame I think it''s mostly down to diplomacy, not tactics.

Well, like I think you said earlier somewhere, you need to be able to abstract the diplomacy into some sort of formal language each player must adhere to. It''s the only way an AI is going to be able to make sense of any discussion.

I don''t think it''s possible to take the design any further without solving that problem, because without the diplomacy, the game just wouldn''t be Diplomacy...

I just finished reading this thread and I wish it had continued. It seemed like it was on the verge of ... something.

Would anyone be interested in re-kindling this?

We all agree that your theory is crazy,
but is it crazy enough?
---Niels Bohr (1885-1962)
We all agree that your theory is crazy, but is it crazy enough?---Niels Bohr (1885-1962)
quote:Original post by jmfreema
Would anyone be interested in re-kindling this?
Ironically, I was just lookng at this the other day. However, I have a peculiar dichotomy. While I enjoy the subject and want to ponder and promote it, there are times when other participants really make me not want to bother taking the time to share my views on it. *shrug*

However, I will mention that Brian Reynolds'' GDC 2004 lecture on "How AI Enables Designers" used the progression of some of the political/diplomatic concepts from his games to illustrate his point. It was very interesting to see the itterative cycle at work - albeit spanning a number of titles. The Civilization II diplomacy was quite well know (although with its drawbacks) and Rise Of Nations was already mentioned in this thread.



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jmfreema:

Given that you''ve only been a member of GD.net for a few months, it is probable that you don''t know the rules about dredging up (necroing) old posts. While I understand your desire to discuss the matter of Diplomatic AI and you found this old thread, it is not considered good ettiquette to add a post to the end of it to get the discussion going again. There are several reasons for this, the predominant one is that much of the discussion in that thread may not be pertinent to the conversation that you wish to have and many people will need to either reread the entire thread to understand where you are coming from, or filter through the garbage to find the points that you are discussing (obviously in this case you haven''t actually starting re-discussing the thread... I''m just trying to head things off before they get ugly).

If you wish to discuss a previous thread such as this one, it is policy among the moderators that you start a new thread and in your initial post, add a URL link to the old post in case people want or need to read that thread to come up to speed.

Regards,

Timkin

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