quote:Original post by Varium
So Alex, what you are say is that learning VB will make it a little easier to learn C++, but at the same time it is quicker to just go ahead and do C++. My school doesn't offer C++, and like I said I just want to get a taste of programming, period, before I decide if I want to take that path. In sort, I am trying to avoid putting all my eggs in one basket.

I guess the better question is: If VB puts a bad taste in my mouth in high school, should I even consider other types of programming in college?

Argh, tough question - what follows is just an opinion - take it with a grain of salt.
I think it depends on your personality - if you are someone who's been dealing with logic, is pretty good at maths, there is a chance that this lesson will end up being boring to you - the basis of programming are relatively simple, and you may end up not enjoing programming if the class is too basic - if feel that starting to happen, grab a VB book, or choose a chalenging project and start learning for yourself (help in Visual studio has pretty much all you need to learn to program - the devil is in finding it ). If however you just don't like the whole point of constant problem solving that comes with programming, then you may want to reconsider programming as a career option.
One funny detail - I've never met a person who didn't like the first language he/she started programming in - most of the people you'll see complaining about a language are either forced to use it or don't really know it.

In any case, you for any reason you do find yourself not enjoying the class, it could be vb's fault - I would suggest at that point giving another language a try - C++ if you want a challenge, java/C# if you just don't like the syntax, or even VB .Net if it's the IDE that's getting on your nerves (advanced advice - the thing I used to hate the most about vb6 - it pops up a message box that you have to close each time there is an error in a line - is actually configurable; fgures I'd learn that long after I stopped using vb6)

Quick advice for vb6 - get option strict allways on...

[Edit] - one more thing - I would recomend in any case that on the long term you do learn C/C++ and or a bit of assembly - even if you end up not using these languages the insight they give on computer architecture is unvaluable in the long run

"I woke up sweating and clutching my pillow. Thankfully the powerful and reassuring visage of Optimus Prime staring back at me from my pillow case served to ease my frayed nerves. Like the giant robotic father I never had he always knows just what to say" - Gabe, Penny-Arcade

Alexandre Moura

[edited by - alexmoura on July 27, 2003 9:44:16 PM]

To be honest, I don't know
From a personal development point of view, I'd say it would be well worth it - for a professional games development point of view, I would still say yes, but I've met a lot of people who have preconceptions against Visual Basic - and I would have to admit that at one point I was one of them - myself, even back then I would have thought that knowing VB was still a lot better than not knowing programming at all, but I don't know who'll be reading your resume...
The thing is, in all likelihood, the classes at Digipen will be in C++/assembly.
What I would suggest one again, is to take the course, and after you've picked up the essencials, start studying C/C++ on your own - focusing on the syntax differences from vb for the basics first (method and variable declarations, operators, flow control operators), then fully undestanding pointers and string manipulation (if you are having problems understanding them, ask here in gamedev - getting a description of how a processor actually uses them typically clears people on how they actually work, but most books won't get that deep), memory management, then Classes and associated OO features, then templates and the stl...

Even if you only get past pointers/memory allocation, that's enought to state that you have some knowledge of C++ in your application - believe it or not I think that's probably 98% of the C++ (technically you could argue that's really only C) you'll use in games

"I woke up sweating and clutching my pillow. Thankfully the powerful and reassuring visage of Optimus Prime staring back at me from my pillow case served to ease my frayed nerves. Like the giant robotic father I never had he always knows just what to say" - Gabe, Penny-Arcade

Alexandre Moura

[edited by - alexmoura on July 29, 2003 2:06:39 PM]

I think noone should answer the post topic if they dont know anything about VisualBasic.
VB is not a language, its a RAD tool (rapid application development). So its interpreted and cant be as fast code as c++ (c# has the same fault too, but thats another topic).

If you want to make a game or engine that won''t be cutting edge then you can use visual basic (use it with DirectX of course, VB and OpenGL arent good friends ). But if you want to make a decent engine/game you HAVE to choose c/c++.

As a RAD, visual basic doesnt have the capabilities of memory managment at the same level as C-brand has. Maybe all this has changed with VB .NET, i know you can now code classes and use inheritance and all this. But .NET code (C# or VB.NET) is not as fast as c++ code (i''ve read tests that show c# code is 80% slower than c++ code; if someone knows about it, please post it)

My first programming experience was with VB, and when converting to C++ I did have some problems, most of which are due to my roots in VB.

VB does make you code more sloppily, or rather it makes it easier to code sloppily (is sloppily even a word? ).

VB I feel is a very good intro to coding because it has a very shallow learning curve to start with. With very little code you can do quite a lot. However, when you get into the more advanced stuff VB gets a lot more tedious. It just doesn''t seem to scale well because all the stuff that make it easier, also make it harder to perform advanced tasks. VB is also noticably slower, but I think thats not just the compiler, and the constant data type conversions, but a poor message loop as well.

As PaulCunningham, use the best language for the job. I found VB is extremely good at making supporting programs for a larger project. For example if coding a game, VB make it easy to make a simple level editor. Level editors don''t need to be fast, but they do need to be easy to use, and quick to build (people don''t ''play'' the level editor, but they do ''play'' with the game, so the game deserves the most coding time).

Just make sure you don''t take all of VB''s features for granted, and don''t start getting into bad practice (ugh @ VB and its use of Goto when handling errors) and you''ll be fine. I just hope your teacher is actually a good one. It seems all the best programmers are employed, and the worst end up in education The exception are the few good programmers who enjoy teaching.

First off I suggest you ignore most of these posts as they are too close-minded. ANY language that you learn will give you a better knowledge of programming, and the more languages you know the better. I started with qBasic in high school, then in college i was first taught C++, which came VERY easy since i aready understood the basic concepts of programming from QBasic even though the languages are completely different. Then i was taught Java, then Visual Basic, then some more Java, then some Perl, then some PHP (if you guys count this, i do). And next semester I am taking a class on Lisp and other not so popular languages. What i am saying is that those who say not to learn VB because c++ is better or morons and you should disregard their opinions. Once you learn one language it is pretty simple to learn the others as they all have common principles (like variables and data types and bubble sort ).

So i would definatly take the class, Visual Basic is great to start with because you can actually get a Windows program up and running in seconds (literally). If you start with c++ you may be turned off of programming because you will only (initially) be taught how to write simple dos console programs. I enjoyed my QBaisc class much more then my c++ class because at the end of my high school QBasic class i had actually written a simple graphical game (writing a game was our final project), whereas at the end of my comp sci 1 class(c++). I only had dos text program that would save addresses in a file.

So that said, taking a class in any/all languages available is a good idea IMHO. Just keep this in mind... your high school teacher probably went to college for education, not computer science, therefore dont get your panties in a bunch like honayboyz because your teacher isnt a professional programmer.

Also remember you can buy a c++ book and learn both languages side by side to reinforce you knowledge of programming in general.