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I don't understand. What exactly should I learn?

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I've been through a huge number of tutorials, books, web sites, programs, etc in search of my answer. While I've learned quite a few things from these sources, none of them provide me with the path I need to take in particular. What (and in what order) should I learn to make video games? C++, animation programs, and directx? I know that's very advanced, but is that what I ultimately want to learn? Also, what do you guys think about blitz basic and/or dark basic for a starting point? I'd appreciate any help. Thanks. [edited by - Kamahl on August 7, 2003 8:38:29 PM]

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I''ll be the first to say it: you really need it all. At the very least, you need to understand basic concepts used in programming. These include, but are not limited to: variables, loops, control statements, pointers, classes (or structures, if using C), memory allocation, etc... Sometimes it''s hrd to understand how you would actually USE something, but you actually need to know ALL the basic concepts.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Start here:

http://www.gamedev.net/reference/start_here/

and here:

http://www.gamedev.net/reference/design/features/makegames/

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That''s not a good mindset for a programmer. You''re never going to get anywhere asking people "How do I make video games?" Its like the adage "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach the man to fish, you feed him for life." If the only way you figure things out is by asking others, you''ll never learn to figure them out on your own. This wouldn''t matter in other situations, but what you''re talking about is very related to programming situations, ie "I want to create a cloud rendering system" ("I want to make video games"). Now you''ll never get anywhere asking people "How do I render clouds?" ("How do I make games?"), you''ll have to think about it, research it, experiment, etc.

Anyway, if you want to be a programmer, but you''re not willing to put in the effort to solve problems and get things done, you''ll never make it.

Back to your post, all you''ll need to know is a programming language (fluently). Eventually you''ll use APIs and you''ll need to know those fairly well also. The most commonly used APIs being the Win32 API and OGL or DirectX.

BlitzBasic and DarkBasic can help you learn to program, since they get you up and running so quickly, but you''ll want to move on to other languages when you start programming more.

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quote:
Original post by Neosmyle
That's not a good mindset for a programmer. You're never going to get anywhere asking people "How do I make video games?" Its like the adage "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach the man to fish, you feed him for life." If the only way you figure things out is by asking others, you'll never learn to figure them out on your own. This wouldn't matter in other situations, but what you're talking about is very related to programming situations, ie "I want to create a cloud rendering system" ("I want to make video games"). Now you'll never get anywhere asking people "How do I render clouds?" ("How do I make games?"), you'll have to think about it, research it, experiment, etc.

Anyway, if you want to be a programmer, but you're not willing to put in the effort to solve problems and get things done, you'll never make it.

Back to your post, all you'll need to know is a programming language (fluently). Eventually you'll use APIs and you'll need to know those fairly well also. The most commonly used APIs being the Win32 API and OGL or DirectX.

BlitzBasic and DarkBasic can help you learn to program, since they get you up and running so quickly, but you'll want to move on to other languages when you start programming more.


Honestly, what was the point of the first half of your post? The second half was a pretty good reply to what I was looking for. I did NOT say, "Make me a video game." And I, frankly, didn't even ask "how do I make games?" My post stated that I've been through MANY tutorials, web sites, etc, but they all don't give me the whole picture. So I learn C++. What do I do with it? So I learn how to make 3D animations. How do I turn them into a game? I'm looking for the whole picture here, and I'm not finding it anywhere. I THOUGHT (big mistake) that forum communities were for helping people. You telling me that I have the wrong mindset by asking questions is simply ridiculous. Asking questions is how you learn. I sincerely feel sorry for you if you have a psychological incapability of asking people for help.

Once again, I've been through so many different sources of help that I can't even see straight. One that I should've probably avoided (at least in your eyes) are forums where you can learn FROM and WITH other people, which happens to be the absolute best way to learn anything at all.

If I was not "willing to put in the effort to solve problems and get things done," I wouldn't be here asking you guys for help.

Edit: I'm sorry for replying like such a prick. I didn't mean any disrespect. I was just bothered that you think I don't have the right mindset because I'm asking people for help.

[edited by - Kamahl on August 7, 2003 9:33:03 PM]

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Dark and Blitz Basic is a good starting point, but you will find that programming in C++, Win32, DirectX, and OpenGL is way harder than Dark and Blitz Basic. Very much harder. Very.

quote:

What (and in what order) should I learn to make video games? C++, animation programs, and directx? I know that's very advanced, but is that what I ultimately want to learn?.


C++ is not advanced stuff. C++ is C++. Don't worry about animation programs yet, unless you would like to become a game modler rather than programmer. Learn C++ and Win32 and become familiar with them before moving on to DirectX and OpenGL.




WiseElben.com - Game programming tutorials, articles, and community.

E-mail:wiseelben@wiseelben.com
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[edited by - GameDev Staff on September 27, 1989 9X:58:97 XMS] For violating Article 43 Page 456 Paragraph 251 Line .042]

[edited by - WiseElben on August 7, 2003 9:41:38 PM]

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To tell you the truth in my opinion if you are trying to use DB or BlitzBasic you are trying to avoid the fact you need to learn programming to make a good game. Those programs are shortcuts and I tried some of them personally and came to the same conclusion...you can't make a good game on it because all of them lack the flexibility a programming language can provide even if they have a scripting language it won't allow you to go past some point I garantee it...Programming is hard but every small thing you learn takes you one step further and doesn't slow you down like those apps, just have patience and keep learning you'll see the light at some point...

[edited by - FtMonkey on August 7, 2003 10:15:59 PM]

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Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

I was just messing around with a Blitz Basic demo(actually, it''s still open now). If you think I shouldn''t be bothering with it since it''s a shortcut, it''s probably best if I don''t.

All I can basically do is learn C++, start making small meaningless programs, eventually move on to 2d games, and eventually 3d?

Another thing, when someone says "Learn Win32" like Elben said, what does that mean? Is Win32 another language, or what?

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If your looking for path, I can tell you what I have done to become a programmer..

First, buy a C++ book...
If you are serious about becoming a programmer, you have to buy a book, tutorials are not enought...

Then after a few months, once you know C++, if you want to start making games, learn Win32 API.. You only need to know the basics about it, it will be enought.
Then buy a DirectX OR OpenGL book, start studing it, and you'll be making games soon...

gl

[edited by - Hedos on August 7, 2003 10:12:25 PM]

[edited by - Hedos on August 7, 2003 10:13:14 PM]

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quote:
Original post by Hedos
If your looking for path, I can tell you what I have done to become a programmer..

First, buy a C++ book...
If you are serious about becoming a programmer, you have to buy a book, tutorials are not enought...

Then after a few months, once you know C++, if you want to start making games, learn Win32 API.. You only need to know the basics about it, it will be enought.
Then buy a DirectX OR OpenGL book, start studing it, and you''ll be making games soon...

gl

[edited by - Hedos on August 7, 2003 10:12:25 PM]

[edited by - Hedos on August 7, 2003 10:13:14 PM]



Now that''s what I was looking for. Something I can use as a guideline. I did already buy a C++ book (several of them in fact...), and that''s what I''m currently learning.

Two questions: 1) to prevent me from searching months from now when I''m ready, could you tell me where to find Win32 guides/files/whatever is needed?

2) When did you start learning graphics programs? After all, graphics are needed to put the game together.

Thanks.

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quote:
Original post by Kamahl
quote:
Original post by Hedos
If your looking for path, I can tell you what I have done to become a programmer..

First, buy a C++ book...
If you are serious about becoming a programmer, you have to buy a book, tutorials are not enought...

Then after a few months, once you know C++, if you want to start making games, learn Win32 API.. You only need to know the basics about it, it will be enought.
Then buy a DirectX OR OpenGL book, start studing it, and you''ll be making games soon...

gl

[edited by - Hedos on August 7, 2003 10:12:25 PM]

[edited by - Hedos on August 7, 2003 10:13:14 PM]



Now that''s what I was looking for. Something I can use as a guideline. I did already buy a C++ book (several of them in fact...), and that''s what I''m currently learning.

Two questions: 1) to prevent me from searching months from now when I''m ready, could you tell me where to find Win32 guides/files/whatever is needed?

2) When did you start learning graphics programs? After all, graphics are needed to put the game together.

Thanks.



q. This is a good Win32 tutorial
http://www.winprog.org/tutorial/ . And if you need to find more information about things in there you can search the thing your looking for here http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp.

2.You should start learning graphics API after you read a few books on the language you''re going to be using.


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I think the main thing to realize is that its going to take time. It doesnt matter alot what languages you learn, just as long as you program. Once you know one language well, others will be easy to learn.

My advice stick to one thing at a time, dont try and bite off too much. If I had to do it over again, I would just read an intro book on C++, then an intermediate one. Once you have an intermediate knowledge of C++, the rest is just practice and practical experience.

As your getting a firm knowledge of C++, get a very intimate knowledge of an IDE, like VC++ 6. Once you have a solid footing in C++, the door is open; to more learning...

As far as making games, dont hesitate. As soon as you can use cout and cin, do whatever floats your boat. Just consider it fun practice.


As far as making games for a living or for money, your going to have to have a solid foundation in several areas. Areas like math for 3D, artistic ability for in-game artwork, and a good knowledge of the platform you wish to do it on. And, of course, being able to use DirectX or OpenGL is a must. If your going to learn DirectX, learning some Win32 would help alot.

If you want to make 2D games, the learning curve in DirectX(DirectDraw) isnt too bad. If you want 3D, the learning curve is steep. Whatever you do, good luck to you.

BTW- if you want a good intro book on Win32, DirectDraw, and general game creating knowledge; dont hesitate to pick up
"Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus" by Andre LaMothe. This book is choked full of great knowlegde on making games.

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quote:
Original post by Kamahl
Now that''s what I was looking for. Something I can use as a guideline. I did already buy a C++ book (several of them in fact...), and that''s what I''m currently learning.

Two questions: 1) to prevent me from searching months from now when I''m ready, could you tell me where to find Win32 guides/files/whatever is needed?

2) When did you start learning graphics programs? After all, graphics are needed to put the game together.

Thanks.



1). A good C++ gametutorial site is www.gametutorials.com it covers pretty much everything you might need in programming (Win32/OpenGL/DirectX/Sound/Network)..

However, I think Dark Basic is a good thing to start with. Download the trial and play around (I made 3D Pong within a couple of hours first time I used it). When the trial time is over (if not sooner), I recommand you to move on to C++.

2). Okay, there are different kinds of situation here. All gamedevelopers doesn''t know Graphicprograms. If you get a friend to learn like Photoshop you can use him to make graphics while you take care of the programming. This is what most people do. However, for smaller games you could try to teach yourself some graphicprograms, but you might need artistskills. Everyone can''t make good music and good art. (but most people can learn most of it).

----------------------------------------------
Petter Nordlander

"There are only 10 kinds of people in the world. The who understand binary and those who don''t"

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