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xyz

will .net take over the game industry?

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At the risk of sounding like an old fart, it wasn''t so long ago that we wrote games in 100% machine code. There were people that refused to use a high level programming language such as C. Now we use C++.

My point I suppose is that tools, languages, developer environments will always evolve, if you don''t evolve with them then you get left behind.

Never say Never.

Michael 8-)

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I think .net will not completly remove C++
Maybe it will play a role in Game Development

I think that Arguments a la .net is to slow for Game Development are not actually because everbody has today a computer with more than 1 800Mhz and a Gefoce 1/2

there is a OpenGL Port for .net and a DirectX Port
So .net will be a real cool technology in the future

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quote:
Original post by xyz
will .net take over the game industry?

A few alternative, completely random, replies pop up in my head:

1) Yes.

2) No. Macromedia Flash already did that.

3) Maybe. Why do you ask? Want to skip learning C/C++ and only pick up the bare minimum knowledge required to conquer the gaming industry and get stinking rich, famous and popular with those cute blondes with wet t-shirts and ample bossoms that the Illuminati prevents you from ever meeting in real life? A-HA, I knew it! Sadly, it doesn't work, I tried it too.

EDIT: Sorry if that didn't make much sense. I didn't get any sleep tonight.

[edited by - LNK2001 on August 11, 2003 7:38:16 AM]

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quote:

2) No. Macromedia Flash already did that.


why?
[qoute]
3) Maybe. Why do you ask?

everyone wants to know if Microsoft wins again and this time Gates seems to have much confident than ever.

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quote:
Original post by MichaelCarr
At the risk of sounding like an old fart, it wasn''t so long ago that we wrote games in 100% machine code. There were people that refused to use a high level programming language such as C. Now we use C++.

My point I suppose is that tools, languages, developer environments will always evolve, if you don''t evolve with them then you get left behind.



so... you''re saying .net is already an evolution...?

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quote:
Original post by Hauptman
I think .net will not completly remove C++
Maybe it will play a role in Game Development

I think that Arguments a la .net is to slow for Game Development are not actually because everbody has today a computer with more than 1 800Mhz and a Gefoce 1/2

there is a OpenGL Port for .net and a DirectX Port
So .net will be a real cool technology in the future




Really? my computers 500Mhz, i believe my friends is the same..and so is my uncles.

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quote:

will .net take over the game industry?


.net is a programming language or something like that. As such it can''t take over anything . Maybe it will become more widely used, but who''s to say that? You should ask in a forum for market analysis, maybe?

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hey, xyz, have you seen that shit everywhere around? it is called .net and it is from microsoft. I am for that we will censore word microsoft. It will be m****soft. or better simply * . I am here to destroy micro...sorry, * . * has fucked everything: dos, win16, win32, and now they are trying to do same with .net. They confused poor xyz, when they said something about .net and (allahu akhbar al jiddah chalid himallat, thx) and games and that .net is good stuff for them.


...poor xyz... but he should be brave and strong. he wasn''t first. Lot of us installed w*ndow*XP. in good hope...





"i won''t pay for that gas." --- Adolf Hitler, April 1945

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quote:
Original post by exa_einstein
...poor xyz... but he should be brave and strong. he wasn''t first. Lot of us installed w*ndow*XP. in good hope...


i just asked a question...

I DON''T use .net to develop games... and as you''re such a M$phobic you will be happy to know that I use opengl and not direct3d...

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Up till now, the end result of using assembly or C/C++ has been a binary file which is machine code. Only reason why C/C++ "was" slower is because compilers in the past were not optimising the code as good as compared to what they do today. After all, C code is converted to assembly, then to machine code.

These days, the performance difference(if any) is almost not visible or so minimal that it wont get noticed in any machine more powerful than a 486.(DOOM was done in C)

But when u compare the difference in ease at which applications can be coded in C/C++ as compared to assembly, the difference is huge.

Now we come to Java/.Net
The end result is bytecode(or whatever the .Net equivalent is).
This still has to be compiled at runtime. The performance diff is pretty huge as compared to C/C++ vs assembly because the end result is not the same.(Machine Code vs ByteCode)

But the main point is that the development time reduced by using these instead of C/C++ is very little that it cannot justify the performance loss by using these languages as far as games and todays hardware is concerned.

Why would i use .Net? For VB.net which is way faster for creating windows apps. Java could be used for applications which need to be run on a large variety of platforms(But i wouldnt as i dislike the language, which is another matter).
But only for applications which do not require the processing power.

I agree though that with games moving to 3D and the gfx cards becoming more powerful where the GPU is far more important then the CPU as far as framerates are concerned,.Net and Java could be used.

But i also see games evolving which they are going to need all the horsepower they need. In Doom3, alot of calculations are done by the CPU to make all the effects appear onscreen. More so in Halflife 2 which has a far more complex physics system
(From one of the videos,it can be seen that every object has a material property. Eg Wood,metal, etc..
Wood would produce a different sound when hit against, float in water,be able to burn, would break more easily etc..
Also the way objects fall and collide, i think every object has a weight, center of gravity and many other properties which define how it should behave.
AI is another area which has improved greatly in HL2).

But until most developers start making games of that complexity, .Net could be used without much problems.

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Have any of you even tried the .NET framework, or any of the languages supporting it? In case anyone is confused, exa_einstein is an idiot. Don''t let some blind zealot dictate your language/API usage.

quote:

Now we come to Java/.Net
The end result is bytecode(or whatever the .Net equivalent is).
This still has to be compiled at runtime. The performance diff is pretty huge as compared to C/C++ vs assembly because the end result is not the same.(Machine Code vs ByteCode)


The end result is JIT-compiled into machine code. The performance difference is not "pretty huge."

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Here is why .NET is never ever ever ever going to beat out C/C++

a)It only runs on windows. Many programmers need portability.
When .NET gets a cross platform implementation and runs on linux and MAC then I might look at it. Until then I''ll use C/C++.
b)many libraries are written in, and to be used by C/C++
and have no .Net versions. Do you like extra work? I don''t.
c)I know C/C++. Why use .NET if Im not sure it''s any good?
Its unproven and so far I''ve heard nothing good about it.
d)It''s from $hitty a$$ M$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
e)Every crap app written in .NET forces me to install some ".NET framework" on my computer. I don''t like being forced to install extra piles of M$ crap like this just to run something I don''t even know if I''ll like. This also adds a good few megs to your distribution which is not good for anything that need to be downloaded.

This fellow says it straight.
"cannot justify the performance loss"
"only good for applications which do not require the processing power."
"new games are going to need all the horsepower they can get"

Maybe it''s ok for a windows version of pac man
but IMHO .Net should be avoided. You will never be able to make Doom3-4 or Halflife2-3 with .Net, it certainly won''t run as well as a C/C++ implementation will, and using it kills your chances for a MAC or Linux version. You''de be stupid to limit yourself with .NET.. it''s not good for games

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My opinion is no. I don''t see C# making significant inroads into C++''s user base. All I see is it eating away at the Java and Visual Basic groups, both of which were always a little too keen to embrace marketing over substance.

Where speed is needed, people will stick with C++ and even assembly in some cases. And if you want to work on a higher-level, something like Python (or even Lisp, before someone jumps in here) is gonna be far more productive than C#. I can''t see any call for an ''in-between'' language in game development.

[ MSVC Fixes | STL Docs | SDL | Game AI | Sockets | C++ Faq Lite | Boost
Asking Questions | Organising code files | My stuff | Tiny XML | STLPort]

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Aw man,something smells bad.........oh yeah it''s .NET.

"Tonight we strike,there is thunder in the sky,together we''ll fight,some of us will die,but they''ll always remember that we''ve made a stand and many will die by hand!" - ManOwaR

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Guest Anonymous Poster
I prefer to watch at .NET C# as at a scripting language.
But there are dark cloud in our future... image the day when
a new win version will check for assembly integrity...
only .NET apps will be recognize by the system.. ok these
day will be the end of all malware and virus but also the end
of all indipendent development.
I hope that gcc and GNU/Linux will not die, these are our only hope.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
A lot of you seem very confused / ignorant ... though this isn''t uncommon in GameDev.
Why post if you have no idea what you are talking about ... its like a disease of the internet.

.net is a framework that includes an increasing number of programming languages including C++!

Some of you could really benefit from a clue.

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quote:
Original post by Mihail121
Aw man,something smells bad.........oh yeah it''s .NET.

I guess you really don''t like .NET then? Would you mind explaining your, no doubt extremely well-founded, reasons for this opinion?

Just for fun, try explaining it without using words like "M$", "Micro$hit", "$hitty a$$ M$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", "World domination conspiracy", etc. More of a challange that way, right?

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Ive been writing a game in C# and .NET over the past few months in my spare time and love it. I get things done faster, the code feels cleaner, and performance is fine for what I''m doing. Are you gonna write Doom3 with it? No, probably not. Is it a fine language for hobbyists and prototyping? Absolutely.

And yes - theres a ton of misinformation in this thread.

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