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quote:
Original post by neurokaotix
Yes you can use it freely. Fuck... was it that hard to say?


Was it that hard for him to look it up? It takes exactly 2.283 seconds of staring at the OGRE page to notice the "License" link (I measured that number with science btw).

This board is full of lazy hippies.

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In the amount of time it took you to go to the site, find the license line just so you can prove kelaklub lazy, you could have easily answered his question. This board is not full of lazy hippies, just elitists with too much time.

-----------------------------
kevin@mayday-anime.com
http://www.mayday-anime.com

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You''d be right except I didn''t have to go to the site because I''ve already been there and I know which license it uses and what that license entails.

As the old saying goes "teach a man to fish, and all that crap."

But go ahead, keep encouraging people to get others to do their work for them. They''ll go far in life.

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There are two modes of communication going on here; The origional poster is trying to instigate a discussion and the other jackasses are going "Wee, I get to shout rtfm just like other jackasses did to me when I was a newbie." And so the origional poster should learn that if he/she wants to talk about how great the OGRE engine is he should post that in the off topic forum or something else risk being flamed.

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quote:
Original post by grasshopa55
In the amount of time it took you to go to the site, find the license line just so you can prove kelaklub lazy, you could have easily answered his question. This board is not full of lazy hippies, just elitists with too much time.


Perhaps I''m proving your point by posting, or perhaps the fact that I can respond to anything in what turns out to be less than 15 seconds means I don''t necessarily have too much free time at all. In any case, you''re wrong.

quote:
Original post by nonnus29
There are two modes of communication going on here; The origional poster is trying to instigate a discussion and the other jackasses are going "Wee, I get to shout rtfm just like other jackasses did to me when I was a newbie." And so the origional poster should learn that if he/she wants to talk about how great the OGRE engine is he should post that in the off topic forum or something else risk being flamed.


Firstly, the point of the OP was not to emphasize how 1337 OGRE was. There wasn''t really any need for the comment, so I imagine it got largely overlooked for the actual question. Far more importantly though, your response is rather cynical and misses the point of community self-preservation. That is, the response of STFW and its ilk are not ego coddling in retribution to harshness dealt in the past, despite your nice little Freudian framework. The fact is, people DO need to be told to look stuff up on their own. In this case, it wasn''t so significant - the time to look at the website and the time to post a response are about equal. But what happens when people start expecting complete solutions and algorithms when they''re adjusted to having everything handed to them? It results in an unnecessary drain of community time, and often an incomplete understanding of the asker. In all, your type of response is short-sighted, judgemental, and foolish.

Later,
ZE.



//email me.//zealouselixir software.//msdn.//n00biez.//
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This has always really irked me. If someone asks a question that could be answered by saying rtfm (or, any number of other formula retorts like it), people jump with glee and proceed to flame them with some kind of incensed attitude of disdain that that person wasted their time with the question. Well, I would like to point out that in that case, your not doing anything any nicer with your retorts for the rest of us who may have realized that flames and attitude are never constructive and decided to at least keep our mouths shut rather than add to the fire. Or, if the issue is one of the persons ability to educate themselves, I would point out that flaming them is the worst thing to do, and you are in no way helping them by angrily telling them to rtfm. Learning how to use the internet to educate themselves is a task in, and of, itself. Also, Education should always be based on positive reinforcement, not negative. If a noob pops up and wants a piece of common place tech-geek wisdom, in the time you could spend bitching at them, you could instead give them the answer and then explain to them that in the future they would save themselves a lot of time if they rtfm because that's what it's there for. If we want to continue to think of all of this as free exchange of information for the betterment of our trade, we can't elevate ourselves above those less experienced than us, but rather help to bring those truly interested up to par so that there will be more people like us.

Edited to note ZE's comments: The issue here isn't with the message, but with the delivery. Yes, people need to be told (taught) where to find the answers rather than having them given to them, but the way in which that message is most often delivered in no way makes a constructive message to the person who asked the question.

peace and (trance) out

Mage

[edited by - Mage2k on August 13, 2003 9:47:27 PM]

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quote:
Original post by grasshopa55
This board is not full of lazy hippies, just elitists with too much time.


That basically sums it up. There''s no reason to post beyond this point. Many people on here are elitest assholes. The guys asked if it was free, in one single post someone could have ended this thread entirely but no. RTFM was the first piece of shit to spew from someone''s mouth, followed by another asshole who also thought he was funny. Now this thread has degressed into a flamewar.



James Simmons
MindEngine Development
http://medev.sourceforge.net

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Too get back to what the poster may have originally intended (I think)

I haven''t used OGRE, but I did read some of the documentation and look at some code at one point in time. To me it seemed very well organized, but that''s about all I can say.




VSEDebug Visual Studio.NET Add-In. Enhances debugging in ways never thought possible.

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there is another piece of this puzzle you guys are missing ...

the OP DID KNOW IT WAS FREE ... but was worried about that being too fucking good to be true ...

so saying RTFM is completely uncalled for here, because he HAD seen (or heard) that it was free ... and was looking for reinforcement to be able to truely believe it ...

in general ... I am of the opinion that RTFM is only ever usefull once for each person hearing it ... the first time they ever hear it, and then have to ask what it means ... and then, hopefully, understand that in the future they actuall CAN read the manual ...

but people don''t really learn empowerment in one attempt if they are the type to always follow authority and not their own inner drive (as schools tend to tell them to do) ...

anyway ... so "teaching" people to be self-reliant is a valid and helpfull thing ... but yelling at them rtfm is like someone saying "do it your fucking self" or "can''t you do it yourself" which almost never has the desired effect ... and definately does not motivate younger people as well as responses more like "here''s the answer, and here is how i found it" ... or "I don''t know the answer, but can''t you look it up on the website" ...

the key to the responses is the initial response which either contains the answer, or admits to not knowing it ... only when this is present, does the second part not come across like a shouted command or insult ... so only in those cases, does the response actual have much chance of achieving the desired effect (reducing the amount of simple / silly questions asked in the future, by making the asker more self-reliant) ...

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Guest Anonymous Poster
yes, it´s free like free speech. you can make your game with that engine if you have the patience and resources and can go beyond the stupid flames.
and you (may be) have to read the license, it´s the same for any gpl´ed software, so you only need to read it once

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I agree with neurokaotix, the OGRE source is nicely organized and pretty well written. In addition it appears to be well maintained.

As for RTFM, why not ignore the post if the question pi$$es you off? No one is under any obligation to answer ANY question here - exercise that option.


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Guest Anonymous Poster
What the hell is RTFM and give up on this war ladies and gentlemen, the question was answered

RTFM - Read the F*#@$$@# Manual
STFW - Search the F$(#@&$% Web

[edited by - Magmai Kai Holmlor on August 16, 2003 10:39:58 AM]

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