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ehsen

is there any alternative of C++

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ehsen    122
I am a newbie in game development. In my previous post many people advised me to learn C++ but you guys can understand that migrating from visual basic to C++ is a big porblem besides this i am also learning Maya so it is also a tough job. The people advised me to learn C++ because of its performance. But i have seen many games which created in vb and they work well and also its easy for me to use direct x in vb. what''s your idea if i use vb in game development. Because i think an expert vb programer is better that bad c++ programer.

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neurokaotix    100
Yeah, a lot of people say that you should try something like Visual Basic before you go to C++, which, in my opinion, is some stupid ass advise. I programmed in VB for about 3 years and I personally think that while the programming expirience was good, the techniques I learned in VB made C++ very hard to learn at first. I had no idea how a .cpp file associated with a .h and how they somehow know how to compile. I mean now it''s different... now I''m a super-duper programmer.

But anyway, just learn C++. Like Nike says, JUST DO IT.

James Simmons
MindEngine Development
http://medev.sourceforge.net

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twix    636
quote:
Original post by cowsarenotevil
I'd learn both at some point, it's up to you which to start with, though. Languages die out often, so it's best not to invest all of your time in one.

Hmm? What languages have died during your lifetime?

Personally, if you only know VB, I think learning C++ would be worth it. I found it a lot more fun. Of course, there are a lot of languages that are more fun than C++. ^_^

[edited by - twix on August 31, 2003 3:40:10 PM]

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PhiberOptic    128
The problem with learning programming is not to learn a languages syntax, but to learn how to think. Once you know how to program and once you know one (major) language, you can probably learn another in a couple of days/weeks..



----------------------------------------------
Petter Nordlander

"There are only 10 kinds of people in the world. The who understand binary and those who don''t"

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twix    636
quote:
Original post by PhiberOptic
The problem with learning programming is not to learn a languages syntax, but to learn how to think. Once you know how to program and once you know one (major) language, you can probably learn another in a couple of days/weeks..


That really depends on the languages you''re talking about. Interesting languages differ in a lot more than syntax. It takes a huge paradigm shift to switch to, say, C++ from BASIC. It takes just as much of a change in your thinking patterns to move from C++ to Lisp. And then Prolog will still throw you for a loop.

Don''t underestimate the difficulty of learning new languages.

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Naku    151
quote:
Original post by twix
Hmm? What languages have died during your lifetime?
quote:
Basic, Pascal, Fortran. I''m sure there''s more aswell.

C++ will give much better performance than VB. It might take a bit of getting used to at first but its worth it and after a while you''ll see how bad a programming language BASIC is.

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twix    636
quote:
Original post by Naku
quote:
Original post by twix
Hmm? What languages have died during your lifetime?


Basic, Pascal, Fortran. I'm sure there's more aswell.


Oh really? By what standards have any of these languages "died"? Don't tell me that nobody uses them anymore. Fortran, I'm not sure about (since I never looked into it), but Basic and Pascal are obviously alive and well. It is very difficult for a language to die unless it was never very useful (or never used much) to begin with.
quote:

and after a while you'll see how bad a programming language BASIC is.

Visual Basic is significantly better than C++ for many specific uses. [EDIT: to elaborate, it's much easier and smarter to use it for complex GUIs than doing it manually with C++] I have programmed in both (though I am a bit rusty in VB since I don't have my own copy ), so I would know that very well. It's not a good idea to simply dismiss languages as useless.

[edited by - twix on August 31, 2003 4:08:22 PM]

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tortoise    122
quote:
Original post by twix
Oh really? By what standards have any of these languages "died"? Don''t tell me that nobody uses them anymore. Fortran, I''m not sure about (since I never looked into it), but Basic and Pascal are obviously alive and well


How is Pascal alive? Who''s still using it to any extent other than supporting legacy code? It''s not even used as an educational language anymore (it''s original intent). Fortran is still used a lot in numerical analysis and other scientific oriented fields, but that''s mostly because the old codgers don''t want to learn anything else COBOL is still used quite a lot in business.

Of course you don''t have to learn C++. Games are written in many languages: Python, C#, Java, C, assemblies, Lisp on and on. I''d say as long as you can get decent bindings to good graphics, audio and input libraries you should be fine.

But C++ is by far the most used language and that alone gives it many advantages.

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twix    636
quote:
Original post by tortoise
How is Pascal alive? Who's still using it to any extent other than supporting legacy code?

Pascal seems to still be alive in some incarnation. The web is still full of resources, and people are using Borland's Delphi to do strange things (like writing Quake 2) =/.

[edited by - twix on August 31, 2003 4:20:57 PM]

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Arild Fines    968
quote:
Original post by tortoise
quote:
Original post by twix
Oh really? By what standards have any of these languages "died"? Don''t tell me that nobody uses them anymore. Fortran, I''m not sure about (since I never looked into it), but Basic and Pascal are obviously alive and well


How is Pascal alive?


Delphi.

--
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Aerolithe    122
Is C still pretty active/common?
Also, I saw someone mention in another thread that C wasn''t as good as C++ because it wasnt object oriented. Would there be times when procedural would be better? Or when neither would be the best option?

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bastard2k5    238
If I remember correctly, C is still heavily used as an embedded and systems programming language. Or in places that cannot afford the overhead of Object-Oriented programming. As for an alternative to C++, C is still there, if you want a more minimal language. Although if you are an expert in the programming language, you will be better than any lousy programmer, no matter the languages used, because the expert programmer can solve the problem, without creating more problems. I would suggest you learning C++ at some point, because it is the industry standard, and if you become a professional game developer, there will probably be some point where you will have to create, or maintain C++ code. You don''t have to learn it now, but keep that in mind.

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twix    636
quote:
Original post by Aerolithe
Would there be times when procedural would be better? Or when neither would be the best option?

Yes, and yes. But I do agree that C++ is better than C just because it offers more options. Being mostly a superset of C, you can choose to take advantage of its OOPness if you like, or if you prefer purely procedural code you can do that too and make use of the extra syntactical conveniences that C++ has over C. There is something of a speed difference, but for the most part it's not very important. Sometimes, of course, it's better to stick with C to eliminate the overhead.

[edited by - twix on August 31, 2003 6:26:30 PM]

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tortoise    122
quote:
Original post by Aerolithe
Is C still pretty active/common?



Sure is. To this day many/most Unix programmers swear by it.

quote:

Also, I saw someone mention in another thread that C wasn''t as good as C++ because it wasnt object oriented.



A language''s OOness is not an indication of worth. OO is just one style of programming, it''s not the be all end all. There are cases when procedural is better, cases when OO is better, and cases where logical or functional or other paradigms are better.

quote:

Would there be times when procedural would be better? Or when neither would be the best option?


Try to seek down some of the comments Linus Torvalds has said about writing the Linux kernel in C++. C''s low levelness (it''s often called a "middle level" language) makes it ideal for systems programming (hell, it was created explicitly to write Unix) and is also good for embedded systems and such.

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
Look at it this way, there are dozens of languages out there that are still in use, just like there are millions of computers around the world.

Sure 100mhz machines running windows 3.1 are still used SOMEWHERE, but people in the video game industry expect nothing less than the best for their equipment. The same should hold true for the language you choose.

Yeah, you can knock out some dinky asteroids clone in VB, or you can do some stuffy professor''s reserch in fortran or something, but who cares? If you want power, speed, convenience, features...go with a modern language like C++. For QUALITY games it''s the only choice.

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cowsarenotevil    3006
quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Yeah, you can knock out some dinky asteroids clone in VB, or you can do some stuffy professor''s reserch in fortran or something, but who cares? If you want power, speed, convenience, features...go with a modern language like C++. For QUALITY games it''s the only choice.


Um, huh? Are you just making that up, or do you have reason to believe any of that?

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Kentaro    122
quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Yeah, you can knock out some dinky asteroids clone in VB, or you can do some stuffy professor''s reserch in fortran or something, but who cares? *snip*


And you could knock out some "dinky" asteroids clone in C/C++ as well so I fail to see your point.

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
C++ is a nice language, but it''s hardly "modern". In fact it''s quite antiquated in many respects.

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TravelingCoder    296
quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Yeah, you can knock out some dinky asteroids clone in VB, or you can do some stuffy professor''s reserch in fortran or something, but who cares? If you want power, speed, convenience, features...go with a modern language like C++. For QUALITY games it''s the only choice.


While C++ is most likely more powerful than vb, I have seen some pretty impressive things done in vb. Such as a first person shooter by nes8bit.

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Qoy    127
quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
If you want power, speed, convenience, features...go with a modern language like C++.


I like C++ a lot, and use it for all my personal projects as well as professionally (though not for games). But I wouldn't go so far as to call it modern . It's more than 15 years old now, and while it definitely holds performance benefits over newer (more modern) languages like Java and C#, it lacks many of the features that were added to them for convenience, like reflection and garbage collection.

I agree with the general leaning of this thread that learning C++ is probably the best idea, especially if you want to consider going into professional game development.

But don't confuse the language's efficiency with modern-ness or a further state of evolution. After all, one wouldn't call a powerful 1960s muscle car more modern than a new civic just because it's faster


EDIT: Looks like the above AP beat me to the punch on this one



[edited by - Qoy on August 31, 2003 7:25:11 PM]

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