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[java] The size of runtimes?

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hi there! i''m making my first java application and i just noticed that java runtimes are rather large. any way around this problem? any tiny runtimes around there somewhere?

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They are smaller than DirectX runtimes.

But yes, if you want a smaller runtime just write to an earlier version of Java. I think the 1.0 runtime was 2MB. Of course, Windows 98 has a default runtime of 1.1.7.



First make it work,
then make it fast.

--Brian Kernighan

"The problems of this world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men and women who can dream of things that never were." - John Fitzgerald Kennedy(35th US President)

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well yea, but i don''t need DirectX or such basic 2D stuff is enough. the application will be small, so several MB of runtime is "not good". in comparison, even the VB runtime is only around one MB.

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Nope, there are no small Java runtimes. If you want to avoid using the runtimes, try taking a look at native compilation like Excelsior-Jet and gcj. Alternately, you might want another language.

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I am comparing the Java runtime to the size of the DirectX runtime. People download DirectX without question.



First make it work,
then make it fast.

--Brian Kernighan

"The problems of this world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men and women who can dream of things that never were." - John Fitzgerald Kennedy(35th US President)

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DirectX also has quite a bit better reputation in the general user's eye than Java does. There are countless cutting edge, hip games that require DirectX, with very, very few consumer oriented Java apps. Not to mention DirectX both comes with Windows and is (or at least used to be) found on the CD of most PC games and video cards. Sun has been striking deals to get Java shipping with certain brands of computers, they claim Java now ships on 50% of all PCs sold, we'll see.

In the mean time, you can always try www.kaffe.org for an opensource, Java compatible RT that's quite a bit smaller than mainstream JREs (under 2 megs). Of course the trade off being determining whether or not your code will run on it can be an exercise in extreme frustration, Kaffe doesn't offer distinct "1.1 compatible" or "1.3 compatible" etc, they just sort of implement what they can.



[edited by - tortoise on September 25, 2003 4:38:46 PM]

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quote:
Original post by tortoise
DirectX also has quite a bit better reputation in the general user''s eye than Java does. There are countless cutting edge, hip games that require DirectX, with very, very few consumer oriented Java apps.


True.
quote:
Original post by tortoise
Not to mention DirectX both comes with Windows and is (or at least used to be) found on the CD of most PC games and video cards.


This is not really a valid argument as we are talking about download. The Java runtime can be just as easily distributed on a CD with a game as well.





First make it work,
then make it fast.

--Brian Kernighan

"The problems of this world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men and women who can dream of things that never were." - John Fitzgerald Kennedy(35th US President)

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quote:
Original post by CaptainJester
This is not really a valid argument as we are talking about download. The Java runtime can be just as easily distributed on a CD with a game as well.


Which is probably what they did with Vampire the Masquerade and Law and Order and any other commercial, sold in stores, Java games (all 2 or 3 of them )

But the point is valid for downloads, getting users to download and install a runtime is a chicken and egg situation. Developers don''t want to develop for the runtime if no one has it. No one wants to get it if there''s no software for it. MS solves this circular problem by literally just flooding the market with DirectX runtimes. With that the momentum has started, games are developed, and willingness to download newer versions of DirectX is greatly increased.

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quote:
Original post by Shu
hi there!

i''m making my first java application and i just noticed that java runtimes are rather large. any way around this problem? any tiny runtimes around there somewhere?



You could say "You''d download once per year 14MB file, but all programs that needs lastes version of VM are considerably smaller and stabler." Then do some comparison with DirectX. Do you know that difference between DirectX 8.1 and 9.0 was rather cosmethical?

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quote:
Original post by Raghar
You could say "You''d download once per year 14MB file, but all programs that needs lastes version of VM are considerably smaller and stabler." Then do some comparison with DirectX.


the problem here is that i have no need for DirectX or the likes. the game will use simple 2D blitting.

i think i won''t use Java. the overhead is simply too much. a shame really.

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