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OstrichOfDestiny

New idea for leveling system

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I know this has been discussed a lot, but what about this: A character has a given amount of points (lets just say 30) for each level gained. Depending on what he uses a lot, it will affect the points allotted to it. For example, if he keeps casting a fire spell at enemies constantly and nothing else, 30 points will be allotted to magic power, with no increase to maic defense or speed or whatever. If he spends a lot of time with melee combat, and is frequently hit with magic, then maybe 20 points will be allotted to strength and 10 to magic def. If they were a jack of all trades, maybe 5 to strength, 5 to magic, 5 to speed, 5 to magic def, etc. So depending on what skills the characters do or use, that fraction of the 30 points will be alloted to it. This system will really customize the character and evenly balance out people.

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Not a bad idea at all, but I strongly recommend you play Final Fantasy 2 (japanese and re-released over here with the Final Fantasy 1 re-release). You''ll get to see pretty much that idea in action and you can decide for yourself if you like it or not.

Charles Galyon

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Uh...have you played Wizardry 8? It works kind of similar like what you said, but the players have total control over the points gained. A player can increase a fighter's intelligence or magic skills (if any) if he wants to, even though the fighter never use any magic, but only when the fighter gains a level.

There is another system in Wizardry 8, when your character uses a combat skill a lot, for example a fighter wields a sword and uses his sword a lot, his sword skill will automatically increase as he fights. There is no maximum points alloted here like you said. It just automatically increases and will keep increasing until it reaches the maximum boundary. Of course, the higher it is, the longer it is to increase. This only applies, however, on combat and magic skills only. You can't do this with the main stats (str, int, dex). You can only increase the main stats if the character gains a level (like I said above).

Play Wizardry 8, I think it has the best character/skill system.

[edited by - alnite on October 5, 2003 7:06:15 PM]

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Definitively Dungeon Siege... if you use Melee you get Strenght and melee skill points and so on, although i think your idea is to do the same thing but different, a bit more complex.

alnite, Diablo also gives you total control over your stats/skills, since you can choose how to distribute the points you gained.

Pokemon does the same thing, just they dont tell you that that can be done, the Pokemon version of stat distribution by type of fight is using a stat formula that resembles an amount of stat point per lvl like a table. But this formula adds a diversification value, wich you cant change, and makes your character stronger in some aspects and/or weaker in others. Also, it includes the Effort Values, wich are points you earn depending on what kind of enemies you have been fighting, thus fighting fast enemies will give you speed while fighting high hp enemies give you hp points.
Unless you search the web for info about the stat formula you wont know a thing about this... thats a problem...
Also, you can only be using melee attacks and still get no extra point to your attack stat (in the case you were fighting...erm...speedy pkmns). There are many versions of pokemon, the last (for GBA) uses this way of Effort Values, the older versions give you points depending of all the base stats of the enemy, not just its representative stat (thus you will still get Att points but you might get less while fighting a low att type)

Id say that you can get an X number of points per lvl. Depending on the attacks you use, you will start getting "Effort Points" on your stats, if you use offensive magic you get magic points, if you endure a magical attack you get magic def points, etc.
If you cast a speed spell, you should get speed points, but in this case you are also casting a spell.... you might get points somewhere else like MP...
To make it more simple, pokemon, if you use a melee attack you get Att points, if you use special you get specialatt points. If you endure a hit, you get Hp points. If the hit was a melee att, you also add to Def points. If it was a special att you add to Spdef points.
How do you increase Speed?, well, you could predefine some attacks, for example Quick Attack, adds to att because is melee but also adds to speed..., Agility, it is only a effect move it doesnt attack it could add only to speed.
if you are damaged by poison wich is not an att/spcialatt, you get Hp points but no defense points. While if you use Defense Curl you get only defense...

Now, how do you use those effort points...
You might add a maximum effort points cap, the characters effort points (total) cannot go over that value. These points will contribute to the stats using an X formula...

You might store all the points, then, when the character gets a new lvl, the alloted points will be distributed proportionally to the effort points (if all the effort points are on hp, you get all the alloted points on hp). After the distribution, the effort points reset to zero, to start the next lvl training...

Also, you might store the effort points, forever, never reseting them, and use a dinamic formula that always shows the changes, and maybe forget using lvl as a variable for that formula, however still showing the user the characters'' lvl (if total effort points are >1200 but <2000 then lvl = 10...)
Or using a max amount of stat points given by the effort points, on the dinamic formula that depends on lvl, and giving the actual stat points using the proportions... (i have 100/0/0 then i get 100%allthepoints/0/0, but then i train the second stat now i have 100/100/0 so i get 50%/50%/0 -of the points that effort points contribute to stat points), the problem would be, when does this end..., you could set a cap here too...

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Although I don''t wish to deter anyone''s efforts towards originality, I fail to see why people always want to come up with different systems and be original. But then again, I''ve always adored old-school SNES-like games and deeply dislike 3D games...

That being said, have a look at Final Fantasy 2j for the NES and the Romancing SaGa series, particularly 3. I''m quite certain many other games use a similare system but those are the ones that come to mind. There are no levels but your stats still increase. Although the system is easy to take advantage of, it works pretty well.

The one gripe I have with this is that when I originally played RS3, I stayed in one dungeon for a few weeks "levelling up" before realizing that wether I stayed there or move on, I''d still level just as easily. Even faster if I were to fight stronger monsters since I''d take more damage and gain more max HP and defense after each fight. It really threw off the pace for the game since random encounters no longer proved any challenging. Whereas the level system always resulted in setting a pace and having to put a certain level of effort in training your group before being able to move on.

Heck, a game needs a decent balance of combat otherwise it''s just a story with no challenge. But too much (badly-designed EXP growth tables that require LOTS of fighting) or too little (the FF2j/RS3 system) can ruin things. Whatever the system used doesn''t matter at all, it''s how well balanced it turns out.

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The system you describe has a great deal of appeal to me, and I think it really captures the idea of role-playing. After all, if you''re following a character through their life, then certainly their lifestyle will affect their capabilities. Most RPG characters spend their time hanging out in taverns, wandering around, and chatting, which is the exact lifestyle that causes most roleplayers to be fat video game enthusiasts, and yet they''re invincible warriors.

FF2j actually had a system of skill atrophy, so if you jacked your Axe skills and then used a sword for a few hours, you''d actually lose a few axe levels. Same thing with strength and magic. If you make your wizard weild his bonk branch (apologies to Seanbaby) for a few rounds, he might lose some of his magic power. And so you had to constantly train, not just to increase your capabilities, but to maintain them.

I don''t like the atrophy, because I, like other players, like to escape my world of mid-terms and liquor and go someplace else, where things are more awesome. But the behavior-based skill acquisition is a good idea. I''d like to see it in a less statistically oriented system, though. Ever play Grand Theft Auto III? Your sprinting ability starts very low, and you can only book for a few dozen yards, but as you spend more time running, your stamina increase until you can dash for blocks. Eventually there''s a sidequest that makes it infinite, but the important thing is that you never really know what the number value of your sprint is, it just gets better. You might not even realize it until you start over with a new game, and your guy is huffing and puffing after what you remember as a short run.

That''s what I would like to see, but with a numerical system, it could probably work out almost as well. Wonder Project J for the Super Famicom had a good system. There was a stat screen, but you increased the character''s abilities by performing a variety of tasks. You could have him lift weight, read books, play sports, run an obstacle course, train wityh a sword, throw objects, and perform myriad other skill-enhancing tasks. Sometimes, though, you would be best served to inhibit some properties. Before sending him to care for the neighbor''s dog, you build up his kindness and sensitivity with pleasant, mild activities. But if you send him to the battle arena in that condition, he''ll burst into tears and totally wuss out. It was a neat game, and I think there''s a translation, so you might want to try it. Read about it before spending money, though, since it''s a sort of bizarre cross between Lemmings and The Sims.

The Sims is another good example. You all know about it though, so I''ll spare you the oration.

I wish the Black Hat board was still around, because I think I proposed something vaguely related to this on that forum.

Ah, Black Hat. Those were the days, eh Bishop?

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It''s too bad that idea isn’t mostly used.
Despite you idea being done and I tell other to put that kind of idea in their game. It still is a good thing that your think about it even though you never seen it before. If you keep thinking you will hit more original ideas. One way is to see outside the box. For instance the idea you said can be seen as:
1 you pass a level and the computer selects what goes up
The opposite of the pc is you so
2 you pass a level and you select what goes up.

Break it down to simple explanations and rearrange things. This is just one view of it.

Too bad I don''t see fighting games use that kind of system

Don''t sing me a song :''( noooooooooo

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