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khawk

Have you considered a different genre?

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Lots of talk about RPG game design on this board, but the only difficult task of designing an RPG is special attention to all of the details that create a believable world. What about a puzzle game? What are the design challenges there? Kevin p.s. This might relate to something coming up in the near future for GDNet.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Kevin, RPGs are hands down the most flawed designs in all of video-gamedom. Is it any suprise that much of the design forum is dedicated to fixing them? Puzzle games are pretty perfect, by comparison; but since discussion of "what makes a good puzzle game" would be purely simantic, they don''t get much attention. The only *real* way to make a good puzzle game is to make a good puzzle game. There''s no extra layers of crappiness like there are in RPGs.

All in all, I think genres on this board get exactly as much wear as they are worth, with RPGs at the top because they need the most improvement to be great. I appreciate your sentiment, though.

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I agree with the above, although I thought I''d add that there are few threads on other topics, it''s just that RPGs are the majority.

In any case, some challenges for puzzle games (since that''s what you were asking for ):
1) This is somewhat obvious, but it''s difficult to come up with something original for puzzle games. Why the heck do you think there are so many tetris derivatives?
2) Creating something that will sell. Most puzzle games just don''t become all that popular. When was the last time you heard the gaming press rave about a puzzle game?

Anyone care to add to the list?



----------------------------------------
Whenever I see an old lady slip and fall on a wet sidewalk, my first instinct is to laugh. But then I think, what if I was an ant and she fell on me? Then it wouldn't seem quite so funny.

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

Kevin, RPGs are hands down the most flawed designs in all of video-gamedom. Is it any suprise that much of the design forum is dedicated to fixing them?




That is an opinion. The fact that RPGs are the most talked about in design discussions is because they''re the easiest to talk about. There are so many different worlds that can be created and explored through the RPG genre that it just makes sense to talk about them. Place that on top of the fact that many people interested in game design come from an RPG background such as AD&D.


quote:

Puzzle games are pretty perfect, by comparison; but since discussion of "what makes a good puzzle game" would be purely simantic, they don''t get much attention. The only *real* way to make a good puzzle game is to make a good puzzle game. There''s no extra layers of crappiness like there are in RPGs.

All in all, I think genres on this board get exactly as much wear as they are worth, with RPGs at the top because they need the most improvement to be great. I appreciate your sentiment, though.



Well, stop and think for a second about what makes Tetris so great. I guarantee that if you pick it apart like an RPG gets picked apart that you''ll find some greatness in its design.

For example, with falling pieces, you have the element of "swarm", where the player begins to feel as though he had no chance of pulling through with a win. Is this prevalent in most puzzle games? I think in some ways, yes. If a game has a timer, it has "swarm".

Just some things to think about before reaching conclusions. Design often goes much deeper than what characters are placed where. To design a great game, you have to reach into the souls of the players and make them feel what they should be feeling if they truly existed in your world.

Kevin

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quote:

Well, stop and think for a second about what makes Tetris so great. I guarantee that if you pick it apart like an RPG gets picked apart that you'll find some greatness in its design.

For example, with falling pieces, you have the element of "swarm", where the player begins to feel as though he had no chance of pulling through with a win. Is this prevalent in most puzzle games? I think in some ways, yes. If a game has a timer, it has "swarm".

Just some things to think about before reaching conclusions. Design often goes much deeper than what characters are placed where. To design a great game, you have to reach into the souls of the players and make them feel what they should be feeling if they truly existed in your world.



[pathetic sarcasim]

Uhh...What were you saying about RPGs? Tetris isn't an RPG...

[/pathetic sarcasim]




"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." --William Blake

Edited by - Nazrix on July 5, 2000 10:12:15 PM

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quote:

[pathetic sarcasim]

Uhh...What were you saying about RPGs? Tetris isn''t an RPG...

[/pathetic sarcasim]



Yes it is! Huh what? It isn''t?? But, but i thought... ;-
)

I don''t think he meant it that way Nazrix, but rather in a comparitive analysis sort of way.

I don''t think we can pin point a genre as being the worst todate because of reasons like hybrid games, game meduims etc.

quote:


Just some things to think about before reaching conclusions. Design often goes much deeper than what characters are placed where.


That heavily depends on the type/genre of game you''re talking about. Which one exactly?



I love Game Design and it loves me back.

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An awesome puzzle game.. Hm that has to be Bust a Move.
I think it''s the best, and funniest Puzzle game I''ve played.
Then of course we have the good ''ol Game Gear Columns which
is great too. A tetris variant, but much better IMO-
And the Tetris multiplayer idea was great because it''s
fun to face a human opponent.


"garbage in garbagecan? hm.. makes sense"

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I know this is going to sound a bit narrow-minded, but I don't think puzzle-type games such as Tetris could be discussed for very long.

Puzzle games have a very small hand-full of concepts (at the very most) about the game's design which make the puzzle itself.

Once you have the idea of what the puzzle is, you've got the design practically done.

RPGs, on the other hand, have an infinite number of concepts and design-related topics to discuss.


In Pac-man, for instance, once the idea of a yellow guy that eats dots and gets chased by ghosts and the fact there's power pellets that allow him to kill the ghosts was created...the design is just about finished for the most part.

RPGs (should) have at least one story plus interactivity...and tons of other things we've discussed for the last 2 months

"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." --William Blake

Edited by - Nazrix on July 5, 2000 12:20:16 AM

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Well Now,

The list of topics for an RPG is almost
endless. Although I think this Forum has
gone through an awful lot of them. But
still, we all love RPG''s here. Puzzle games
don''t really make it these days. Not for
me anyway. BUt it would still be fun to make
one. And I''m sure if it was made by all of us
then it would be quite good.

STVOY

Mega Moh Mine!!

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Well Now,

The list of topics for an RPG is almost
endless. Although I think this Forum has
gone through an awful lot of them. But
still, we all love RPG''s here. Puzzle games
don''t really make it these days. Not for
me anyway. BUt it would still be fun to make
one. And I''m sure if it was made by all of us
then it would be quite good.

STVOY

Mega Moh Mine!!

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