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Dorgbar

Just another MMORGP (initiative system)

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My Combat system starts whit Initiative First the server check all the creatures in the combat Every creature an initiative score. That derives from the weapon. Smaller weapons got a better initiative score than larger weapons. Lets say we have a combat whit 3 creatures. A goblin whit a knife, an orc whit an axe, and an ogre whit a large brutal club. The status will be like this Creature initiative score Goblin 100 Orc 75 Ogre 25 In the start of every round, the creature whit the highest initiative score starts(if his score is >= 50)(else: the round ends). when its your turn you loose 50 initiative score, and if you have less than 50 you save the rest for next round In this case the goblin starts. He use his turn and the system resets. But now the status is Creature initiative score Orc 75 Goblin 50 Ogre 25 The goblin used its turn and now it’s the orcs turn after he used his turn and the 50 initiscore the status is Creature initiative score Goblin 50 Orc 25 Ogre 25 It’s the goblins turn again… but after that noone have >= 50 initiative, so the round ends. next round the status is like this Creature | initiative | Rest from last round | total initiativ Goblin 100 0 100 Orc 75 25 100 Ogre 25 25 50 You can only save up to double your start initiative score. If two creatures have equal initiative score, its random who starts Who Knows??? Who Cares???

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So if the Goblin had say 210 initative (like a pocket knife) and the other 2 in the fight had 25 points (20 pound axes) then the goblin would have 4 turns before the other people even got a chance to go.

then the Golbin would have 10 points and then others would have rested for 25 so they''d get a turn next...

This system sounds turn based and is that what you really want to have in a MMORPG? for example a player goes into the cave with his trusty axe (nice and large) but he is fighting orcs that have knifes.. the orcs are going to attack him and going to have 1 or 2 hits EACH before he swings.. and they are going to be numerous verus he is only 1 (ie only attacking 1)

I like the idea of each weapon taking different times to attack then another one but I think it shouldn''t matter what the other person is carrying.. IE if 2 people have huge axes then they both swing fast but if an axe meets a knife then it swings slow..

I like a weapon to have a speed and then when you attack the weapon swings at a certain rate, if you get hit in between you might be slowed down or even interrupted.. but if your avoiding the hits you can have a constant swing speed no matter what you fight..

Your Idea seem interesting I''m just not sure it would work

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100 is just an eg. value.
only skilled warriors have more than 100, and 200 is Inhumanly.
And you aren''t going into a cave alone, you are in parties whit about 8 players.
If two players have like 1 initiative each, the server automaticly skip the first 50 turns, so you dont have to worry about that

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1) Not everyone is going to want to party up with 8 different people everytime they want to enter a dungeon. Sometimes you just want to play around and kill a few things.

quote:
Original post by Dorgbar
If two players have like 1 initiative each, the server automaticly skip the first 50 turns, so you dont have to worry about that


2)What is that refering too.. all that means is that if 2 people are at the same level that they will constantly be hitting like crazy.. ie. if they both have 1 initiative they will hit every posible second so a match between 2 people with masive axes will only take a second no matter how good they are.. because the server is going to skip right to the time when they would hit right away.

but if that same axe when against a knife with 100 points it would never hit.. say the knife is 50 and the axe is 1 then the knife hits 25 times before the axe hits.. because the knife goes
then the knife is 0 and the axe is 1
then the knife is 50 and the axe is 2
and then the knife hits and is 0 and the axe is 3

its great to look at balanced stats like in your example but MMORPG players don''t try to balance things they try to mess with the rules and I can see in your system the best players holding the smallest weapon to go after the biggests bosses that are holding insanely huge axes that would crush you in 2 hits.. but the problem would be the player gets 100''s of small hits before the boss can even swing so there is plenty of hit to heal up for the next hit ..


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quote:
Original post by krez
i think it would be better to just give each character+weapon a time delay between attacks... just my 2 cents


This is what I''m trying to say... That way the player knows how his weapon is going to react in a fight no matter what he is trying to fight.

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1 is an impossible initiative, its too low

any round is about 5 sec.

a knife might have the value of 75 initiative wich means that you are allowed to attach twice in 10 sec.
a very heave axe has the value of 40 or maybe even 30
so they will be able to attack 4 times in 50 sec.
and if the giant axe have a damge rate that is about 3 times higher than the dagger it wouldnt be that unfair dont you think.

if you arent strong enought for your weapon you got some initiative penalties. so an extremly weak goblin would have about 15 initiative useing an axe, and for him it would be smarter useing a dagger

[edited by - dorgbar on October 8, 2003 11:01:32 AM]

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acturally im having a 11 pages long ruleset/manual, and i would gladly post it, but i havent translated it to english yet and there is still some rules that have to be fixed.

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What about sticking with the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle ?

Just use a timeline (you necessarily have one in a online game to synchronize stuff), at the start of the battle you compute intiative once.

Assume that an Action takes time to ''prepare'' and time to ''act''.


Battle starts at t time.
Add some randomness to t for each fighter. (if you want)
Time t0 is the time @ which the fighter begin his action (t+random).
Time t1 is the time @ which the fighter is done ''preparing'' to act (Fighter.Speed + Weapon.Speed/Spell.Speed/0).
Time t2 is the time @ which the fighter is done ''acting'', and it''s also the time t0 for the beginning of the next action.




-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

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With those examples you have, I did a little calculation

say the knife is 10 damage
then the knife hits 10 times in 50 seconds = 100 damage

the gaint axe is 30 damage (10 * 3)
then the axe hit 4 time in 50 seconds = 120 damage

a knife is hitting 2.5 times as fast and a axe is only doing 3 times the damage.. I''d still have a dagger and get the hits in faster

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4 times in 50 sec. is 20 initiative
and if the axe got 30-40 as i said
the damage rate is 50%-100% higher

so the knife damage 100 if you hit each of the 10 times

and an axe damage from 180-240

there is some benefits using a knife but larger weapons is stille the most effective ones


Who Knows??? Who Cares???

[edited by - dorgbar on October 8, 2003 11:54:44 AM]

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quote:
Original post by Ingenu
What about sticking with the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle ?

Just use a timeline (you necessarily have one in a online game to synchronize stuff), at the start of the battle you compute intiative once.

Assume that an Action takes time to ''prepare'' and time to ''act''.


Battle starts at t time.
Add some randomness to t for each fighter. (if you want)
Time t0 is the time @ which the fighter begin his action (t+random).
Time t1 is the time @ which the fighter is done ''preparing'' to act (Fighter.Speed + Weapon.Speed/Spell.Speed/0).
Time t2 is the time @ which the fighter is done ''acting'', and it''s also the time t0 for the beginning of the next action.




-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-



you could make 10-20% random bonuses/penalties but it doesnt matter that much

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quote:
Original post by Dorgbar
4 times in 50 sec. is 20 initiative
and if the axe got 30-40 as i said
the damage rate is 50%-100% higher

so the knife damage 100 if you hit each of the 10 times

and an axe damage from 180-240

there is some benefits using a knife but larger weapons is stille the most effective ones


Who Knows??? Who Cares???

[edited by - dorgbar on October 8, 2003 11:54:44 AM]


I''m sorry but I can''t have a discussion with you if you keep changing the information. I was just using the facts that you gave in your previous post for my calculations.. and now you have totally different numbers

and I really don''t see how you you can say before that its 3 times as much damage and now its only 1.5 or 2 times as much damage yet the total ends up way higher..

If you don''t say the values that your going to use or you don''t show the calulations that will be used then there is no point in trying to explain what is going to happen.. there is no way to understand what your thinking

Plus in this example you have used a knife and a axe which is only 2 weapons and you have changed the values on these 3 or 4 times in your posts just so that there would be balance.. I think you need to go with the KISS approach or your going to end up with a huge mess when you try to have 20 or more different types of weapons that you want to be balanced so that its some what realistic..

I''m just trying to help you out, I''m not trying to say that your Idea is totally wrong, I''m just saying that maybe its a little too complicated thats all

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yeah i know but those informations i started with was just eg. informations to explain what the ideea behind the system was im sure i said 30-40 but whatever

Do you think it cant be balanced, so that knifes is useable. but different from axes.

in many games knifes are only to use in the lowest levels, but in my system every weapon should be usefull if you are skilled whit them

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quote:
Original post by Turt99
and I really don't see how you you can say before that its 3 times as much damage and now its only 1.5 or 2 times as much damage yet the total ends up way higher..



you misunderstood or im just explaining me wong.
i did not changed the "times as much damage", ist 3 times as much , i only changed the initiative, from 20 to 30-40





[edited by - dorgbar on October 8, 2003 12:35:51 PM]

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why not use something similar to how shadowrun does it.
Each person in combat everyone has a initive value which is based on a random value and there stats.

Now for your game give each weapon a action cost, That amount of initive it takes to use the weapon. Calculate initive for everyone involved in combat this number will be used to deterime not only the sequences of attacks but also have many attaks they get around since, as long as initive is a positive number the charcter can attack.

So Bob vs the goblin and orc.
Bob has a sword action cost 25
goblin knife action cost 10
orc axe action cost 50

round 1 initive
bob = 45
goblin = 30
orc = 50

round 1 attack sequence
orc = 50-50=0
bob = 45-25=20
goblin = 30-10=20
bob = 20-25=-5
goblin = 20-10=10
goblin = 10-10=0


so as you can see from the example the slower axe can still hit first because the character is fast enough, but it only gets 1 attack, while the slower goblin with the fast dagger is last to attack but gets to attack more then the rest assuming it''s still alive at then when his turn comes up. Each round would generate a new initive value. This also prevents outofsych errors from occuring, because if as you said you want to skip rounds where no opponet can attack this would make that combat out of synch with the rest of the combat going on in your world.


-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

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quote:
Original post by Dorgbar
quote:
Original post by Turt99
and I really don''t see how you you can say before that its 3 times as much damage and now its only 1.5 or 2 times as much damage yet the total ends up way higher..



you misunderstood or im just explaining me wong.
i did not changed the "times as much damage", ist 3 times as much , i only changed the initiative, from 20 to 30-40





[edited by - dorgbar on October 8, 2003 12:35:51 PM]


Sounds like it could be balanced (it might not be really easy but its possible), it seems like you don''t want to have 1 weapon that is better then all the others ie, One weapon that everyone will want to use, and I think thats a good Idea.

I think its making more sense to me now and I think what your trying to do it possible, the only thing that I''d be a little worried about is that the person with the smallest weapon is going to get the first hit everytime.. I would suggest maybe adding a condition that the person that actually attacks always gets the first hit.. like if they sneak up and hit them in the back the other person wouldn''t know they where attacked untill they where hit

other then that I think the system will work it will just be a little challenging to keep it all balanced



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You could use an initiative system like the one that is used in Dungeons & Dragons...
Every character has an initiative modifier. This can represent how fast the character is, for example. Say your character has an initiative modifier of +4, for a fast character, or -2 for a big clumsy ogre.
Every weapon has an initiative score, as well. A knife, for example, might have a initiative score of 3.

Then you randomly pick a number between 1 and 20, add the character''s initiative modifier, and subtract the weapon initiative score...

Just a suggestion..

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quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
why not use something similar to how shadowrun does it.
Each person in combat everyone has a initive value which is based on a random value and there stats.

Now for your game give each weapon a action cost, That amount of initive it takes to use the weapon. Calculate initive for everyone involved in combat this number will be used to deterime not only the sequences of attacks but also have many attaks they get around since, as long as initive is a positive number the charcter can attack.

So Bob vs the goblin and orc.
Bob has a sword action cost 25
goblin knife action cost 10
orc axe action cost 50

round 1 initive
bob = 45
goblin = 30
orc = 50

round 1 attack sequence
orc = 50-50=0
bob = 45-25=20
goblin = 30-10=20
bob = 20-25=-5
goblin = 20-10=10
goblin = 10-10=0


so as you can see from the example the slower axe can still hit first because the character is fast enough, but it only gets 1 attack, while the slower goblin with the fast dagger is last to attack but gets to attack more then the rest assuming it's still alive at then when his turn comes up. Each round would generate a new initive value. This also prevents outofsych errors from occuring, because if as you said you want to skip rounds where no opponet can attack this would make that combat out of synch with the rest of the combat going on in your world.


-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I'm a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document




Acturally this idea rocks...
but i improved it whit my save initiative idea, so you are allowed to save up to 50 initiative more then your standard
that means people who got 20 will be able to save up 70 and people who have 200 will be able to save 250

[edited by - dorgbar on October 10, 2003 4:31:44 PM]

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