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do i have too many character attributes?

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my character attribute system, which is still being hammered out, has at least 18 attributes relating to character performance. is this too many? so far i''ve got three main attributes -- strength, intelligence, will -- and another five attributes separating the main pairs of strength & intelligence, intelligence & will, and will & strength. a list, starting and ending with strength is as follows: strength > dexteterity >> ability >>> coordination >> perception > awareness intelligence > insight >> competence >>> charisma >> temperence > faith will > spirit >> fortitude >>>endurance >>immunity >fitness strength an important note to make is that each of these attributes has its own purpose, regardless of it''s similarity with another attribute. awareness and perception, for instance: awareness judges how aware you are of your surroundings, and would help you to spot enemies either hidden or in the distance; perception judges how well you respond to your surroundings, and would help you to better deal with those hidden and far off enemies. there are other examples, but i won''t get into them here. i also have two additional sets of attributes, one which accounts for a character''s energy levels, and one which accounts for morality. these will be displayed under a separate tab. so is this too much? the interface, as i picture it, is very streamlined, and only the most vital attributes will be displayed on screen; things like body temperature, current energy level, etc. it will also be fairly customizable, so that displays can be added and removed as needed. and there is nothing in my plans so specific as to say, you need this exact level of a certain attribute or higher to perform a certain action. any character can perform an action, or try to perform it, before that action''s recommended attribute levels are met, but it may be less effective or difficult to complete at lower levels. thus there isn''t a big need to micromanage stats. any comments/suggestions?

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Perception and Awareness are the same thing - for response you would want to have reaction or reflex.

a lot under will doesn''t belong there. Overcoming diesease isn''t mental it''s physical and belongs under strength - immunity, endurance, and fitness all belong under strength.

Charisma is usually sectioned off by itself but seeing as it has to do with the mind, I guess you can keep them together. Temperance however is a factor of will.

Coordination, Perception/Awareness, and dexterity have nothing to do with physical strength. They are actually skill/mental attributes.

I guess all my criticism is debatable but the question is why do you need all these statistics in the first place?

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Personal, I think it''s a matter of how well all the information is presented, how organized on screen & how much they effect the game play.

Also the game itself has alot to do with it, a FPS game I would say cut few more. If it''s a RTS/RPG (which is my guess based on the names), I don''t see a problem with alot. But I would sit down and figure out how you increase/gain and how they interact with the other parts of the game to see if they are worth the time for the player to work at them and your time to program them.

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yeah, it''s all semantics. and immunity isn''t really under will, it''s between will and strength, or more specifically, between endurance and fitness, two things with which it shares a common relationship. and yeah, i was thinking about replacing perception with reflex, or maybe instinct.

likewise perception and awareness are not so much under strength as between coordination and intelligence. and dexterity is in the wrong place up there. it should be after ability.

the reason for all of these attributes is to allow flexability between different players and different characters. if there are only four or five attributes, then you can only increase your ability in those four or five areas. they also allow for different gameplay experiences; a character that is injured in battle must rely on the attributes stretching from strength to faith in order to survive long enough to recieve medical attention or recuperate on his own.

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hmm, well percepetion and awareness are the samething, and some of your stats belong in other cartagories such as faith should be under will.

Also you could make some stats to be derived stats instead of base stats.

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To problem with too many attributes is figuring out enough algorythms to use them all. I mean, it''s all fine and dandy to say "Stat Check" and have this boulder have a -7 STR, -2 WILL, whatever. Where you get into trouble is placing really annoying and arbitrary limits on a situation. When designing a level, you have to realize that theres a minimum expectation on the player in order for him/her to get through the level, and that minimum is set to the hardest challenge in the level. If you have a locked door, and it''s the bottleneck of the level, and you need a minimum 12 lockpicking skill, then the whole level has a minimum 12 lockpicking expectation on. Thats just one scenario, now imaging having to consider 18 variables when designing a level.

Ideally, you should try to have the least amount of Character Stats as possible, and then calculate the characters skills from that base, and then award them bonuses to the skills. That way you have much less variables to consider when designing a level, and the player has much less things to worry about.

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..the energy attributes are still being hammered out to this degree. energy attributes determine the ability of the player to use other attributes at any given time. characters have an energyMax and an energyNow. this ratio gives a character his or her energy density. when the energy density falls below about 50% the player becomes unconscious. when it falls below 1% the player is dead. energy density is represented by transparency.

also, the density can be either positive or negative, which depends on the levels of the moral attributes. the positivity, negativity or nuetrality or a character is represented by the brightness of the energy. white represents light and life, black represents darkness and death. a mid-tone conveys neutrality.

the morality system is based on an opposition of the seven deadly sins and the seven contrary virtues.

pride/humility
avarice/charity
envy/love
wrath/justice
lust/acumen
gluttony/sacrifice
sloth/zeal

any given action assigns points to certain categories. only one attribute in each pair maybe have a positive value at any given time. the value of one side is inversely proportional to the value of the other.

too much? a much too much?




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inmate...

i don''t want to make a game like the one you are describing. it may be that there''s a door that you want to go into, and you may need a lockpicking skill of 12. but if you don''t have it, that doesn''t mean that you couldn''t get through some other way. break it down, use a weapon, use magic...go find a locksmith.

and i have decided that i do not want a game that is controlled by a very specific plot line. there are events that happen, wars and the like, but you choose your own level of involvement. so really, you don''t really have to pick that lock. there are a 1001 other things to do.


and yeah, some of these are derived attributes and some of them are basic. thats why i arranged them like i did. faith is close to will, which is close to spirit which is close to fortitude which is close to endurance, and so on. i haven''t figured out the intracacies yet, though.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
My opinion: kill 2/3 of your stats. Keep the main stats and the mid-points. Complicated is bad.

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I''m at a mixed feeling towards this.
I''ve seen games with many many attributes. But simplicity is good too. Maybe if you group them together into common attribs. And also award attributes together. So take strength fitness and endurance and power (strength being the group name)... if you increase in fitness 2 points... you get 1 point for the rest.

But basically you can have many many attributes. But defintely make it easy to understand. if you have them placed all around the display in no order, people will get confused. But if you group them together and have it just so simple that you look at it and understand almst immediately... then that''s what you want.

Deus Ex is one game that had different methods to finishing the level. There was the brute force method, the hackers method, spy, bla bla bla. It allowed you to tailor yourself to the needs youw ant. Morrowind also allowed for that too.

YOu have to ask yourself, what is your target audience... is it someone who likes 100''s of stats to look at and manage or is it someone who can''t handle too much. Once you pick the audience it might be easier to meet their needs

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