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milkywayman

magic the gathering

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Hi acctually this post should not be here, but.... anyways what should some owne study, if he wanted to get a job as a game designer for traditional games, such as magic the gathering or AD&D it seems that there are lots of schools to study vidoe game design...but what about traditional board games?? i have been doing some research...but cant find anything usefull...just getting some info for my brother,,,so any help would be appreciated.

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Now, I''m not quite sure... but I don''t think there are any such schools. You just have to think for yourself. Again, though, I don''t know that for a fact.

Uberness...

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Such games are relatively easy to create in that all the programmer generally has to do is create a graphical representation and userface that''s used to control the game rules.

You can program a tic-tac-toe game in a very small time where you see a grid of 9 squares. Player 1 clicks a square and an X is marked there. Player 2 clicks an open square and a circle is drawn. Winning conditions are 1) Some player gets 3 of his symbols in a line or 2) Stalemate. Now adding an AI into the game to play against for single player mode is another story but an AI for this would be relatively simple (or could be depending on how tough you want the game to be).

Now, take this and apply it to the game of your choice. Want magic the gathering? Create an object that represents a card with all of it''s attributes. Set a playing field complete with card, mana, life, counter representation. Implement the rules for what happens when a player does action X. Voila, game!

The hard part is the 3D Stuff and coming up with your own ideas then figuring out how to represent them. And even the 3D stuff doesn''t have to be difficult if you learn and plan before you code.

Webby

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Website will, I think he was talking about REAL boardgames. As in Trivial Pursuit, Risk, stuff like that.

Milkywayman : I am pretty sure there is no such thing as a game design school for "real" games. Although I am pretty sure anything you might learn about game design for computers cannot be useless.
My own experience is that people who design board games are first of all AVID gamers themselves. If all you know of board games is MB, Parker and Wizards of the Coast, you are starting with very little. A good start would be to find magazines that talk about gaming. And I mean pen n paper Roleplaying games, Miniatures wargames, Strategy games, Chess, Boardgames, this sort of stuff. Not computer games magazines.
In France we have Casus Belli (Roleplaying games), Backstab (RPG and card games), D20, Ravages (miniatures wargames), Vae Victis, and many more that I forget about or that disappeared.
White Dwarf is an English magazine that publicizes Games Workshop games and is probably easier to find than the magazines I previously mentioned.
The best (and AFAIK) only way to get into the industry, is to first get into the hobby. Writing articles for such a magazine, sending contributions, going to conventions.
Most game designers went through those stages before landing their dream job.

here is a few links I know of :
Jeux Descartes A French games publisher, they are the biggest provider of board games I know of in France, with everything from puzzles to roleplaying games, from card games to miniatures and wargames.
Casus Belli the oldest gaming magazine in France. Initally they did wargames, then Roleplaying games when DnD appeared. You might not understand French but maybe you will find the links useful as there is a lot of them.
Le site de l''Elfe Noir The biggest portal for roleplaying games in France. Again it''s all in French, but there are so many links that you might wanna give it a look anyway.
the GROG is another huge roleplaying games portal/database. It''s in English too, so you might prefer it over SDEN.
Games Workshop teh biggest miniature games company I know of.
Bruno Faidutti''s webpage He is a very prolific FRench board games designer, with a few very succesful games under his belt. You might wanna check him out to see how *he* did it.
Dork Tower You are not a real gamer if you dont know Dork Tower ;-)
Steve Jackson Games They have been making games for as long as I can remember, probably even before that...

Gee, I am sure there are MANY more, I just dont know all of them. But like I said, the best way to do games is first to play them. I keep reading on those forums people who bring what they think are "brand new original" ideas. Almost everytime I can cite a game that has already done it somehow, usually a Roleplaying game or a Board games. Of course, most times I am dismissed and ignored, but sorry guys, it doesn''t change the facts.
So there you go, good luck in your quest
I hope I helped you a bit.


Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

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I agree with ahw, if you want to be a designer of board games and none electronic games, become a hobbyist. obsess over them. get yourself into the industry nicely. if for soem reason you have a revalation of an idea that will revolutionize board gaming in the world, don''t hold it back because you aren''t an insider. start drawing up all you can for it, rules, rough board sketches, just enough of a prototype to play it and work out flaws. Once you''re happy withyour revolutionary idea start checking that it hasn''t been done first, then start pitching it to publishers aroudn the world. soon as one bites you can consider yourself an official board game designer.

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If you live in an area with a good small business support system, it''s actually not all that expensive to produce and market a game, either. A buddy of mine who runs booths at summer festival looked into the cost of production of 1000 units of a boardgame, and for a game at about the Axis and Allies level he figured he could get the whole works done for about $5/unit (Canadian) manufacturing costs, and thereafter I think the unit cost would drop to $2-3/unit. For a startup business, $5000 in capital costs is probably an acceptable risk, although that really depends on how comfortable you are business-wise.

A couple of acquaintances of mine also set themselves up as indie boardgame designers for a while under the banner of Spiral*Core. You can see basic descriptions at this site. Their company site appears to be defunct, so that''s probably a testament to the difficulty of the task.

I don''t know how common this model is for getting into the industry, but I''m thinking it''s probably on par with having a killer demo when trying to break into the video games industry. Moreover, having real live people pay actual money for something you produce is a great measuring stick of how well you''re doing in real-world value

ld

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If memory serves, one of the routes Wizards recommends for trying to get into Magic R&D is to start showing up at major tournaments preferably as a player (requires sufficient skill/luck) or judge (requires several years and some lucky breaks). If you just turn up as a spectator, then you have to work a little harder to get the right people to notice you in the right way. Once enough people in the right circles know you, then you''re in a good position to try and actually land a job... in the interim, the best way to learn any kind of design is by trying to do it yourself. Once you have some attempts behind you, then you''ll be in a much better position to judge what else you need to know, what skills you need to develop, where your strengths are, and where your weaknesses lie.

All the contacts and training in the world won''t be enough to get and keep a job as a designer, ultimately you need to be able to produce something you''ve designed, and that goes for any kind of game design.

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acctually, i thought that i was probabaly goona get screwed for posting this message here.

but the response has been great...very helpfull

thanks ppl.

i have been doing some research as well, it seems that there is acctually a strong industry supporting and developing board games..this includes the collectable card kind.

i think the best method to get into the industry..as has been stated in a tread here, is by first becoming a really hobiest...then either form a start-up with some buddies or try to win some major tournemants..

..the really question is now..which method is easier.....haha..anyways. i guess..if your really good at someting and really work for it...anything can be achieved...right..even winning the world championships for magic the gathering.





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