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celtic_aura

My oh my.....what language shall I choose???

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I am a brand-spanking-newbie and am be-fuddled on what language to choose. I am going to be developing a game for someone who wants it to appear within a browswer window. Does anyone have any suggestions??? Even telling me what languages NOT to use would be a help. C Oh yeah...the game won''t be 3D or first person shooter....gonna be a real-time strategy thing. Thanks

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I suppose Java is the way to go. I can''t think of anything else that would make games that appear in a browser window. Actually, there is also things like Macromedia Flash or Shockwave but I am not sure that is what you want. I think you should go with Java.

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When he said Java, he didn''t mean javascript, those two items are very different.

And for the mini window... do you mean an internet explorer window?

Anyways, stay away from Visual Basic.... it''s evil.

Cheers

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Perl. Perl. Perl. As some of you may know, I am a HUGE perl fan, and if you didn''t know you do now Perl is extremly easy to learn and develop, there are some great modules that will help you get started on CPAN
www. cpan.net
what do you mean by real-time strategy?

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I am suggesting that you master one language and have alot of practice and you will make a great result. you can select either c/c++ or Java, because of they are more popular languages and widely use in the Game market. good luck with you study

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Thanks.
When I said I was a newbie, I meant a game newbie. I have a diploma in programming, so I know the basics....java vs javascript, etc.
Basically the person I''m developing this for wantsthe game to be accessible through a browser window.

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Hmm...

You could, if you''re prepared to limit your players to using IE, develop it as a full web plugin - an ActiveX control. For that you could use C++, VB, Java, or a number of other languages.

Aside from that, you''re looking at building on systems which already allow for realtime content within the browser.

You''ve got Java. It might not be terribly fast, but it''d be cross-platform. Depends on how complex this RTS is, really - simple sprite based thing shouldn''t be a problem.

You''ve got Flash and/or Director. They might be better, in fact - they''re faster than Java, and from what I''ve heard the current incarnations allow for some serious programming to be going on (we''re not talking ''movies with a "skip" button'' anymore).

What else.. WildTangent? I don''t know if that''s even still going...

I think Blender has a web plugin, but it might just be for displaying static scenes rather than the full Blender game-engine stuff.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3 | Enginuity4
ry. .ibu cy. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu

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By java I meant JavaApplets.

It would be nice if you told us more about the game you are making - how much graphics does it require? ....

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Shockwave has 3d support that is hardware accelerated. It has havok physics extra and the whole lingo language is very easy. If you''re talking browser games that would be my choice.

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As soon as I get more info from my boyfriend (person I''m programming for) I''ll let you know. LOL.
As far as he has told me, and we are only in prelim discussions, he was thinking of something like Ascendancy. Only thing is, he doesn''t want the players to have to download anything on their systems. I am trying to convince him that this might not be the best way to go(thinking it would be very hard/slow on the server).
I was thinking java applet, basically because I know some java.

As for the graphics, he doesn''t want 3D.

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If he doesn''t want 3D your task becomes easier.

"doesn''t want te players to have to download anything on their systems"

He is aware that no matter how it''s done, it''s still going to get downloaded from the server to the client - just that with an in-browser game, it''ll need redownloading every time he clears his cache?

It would probably be best to re-evalutate that requirement...

You *could* write a browser plugin which downloads the game and installs it (to C:\Program Files or whatever), but it''s potentially a major security flaw; after all, users don''t like stuff being installed on their machines without them knowing about it.

I''d say go for a plain download-and-run job (self-extracting executable). If you were really up for a challenge you could make the installer fit the ''theme'' of the game, like the installer for Command and Conquer (''Eva''); using sounds and game resources, playing videos in the background, and keeping a consistant graphical style. Though for a download-from-the-web game, it might be more important to minimize size.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3 | Enginuity4
ry. .ibu cy. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu

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An alternative to Java that is a much more fun language (in that you don''t pull your hair out trying to kill the language for its effectiveness at sucking) would be using ASP and integrating C#. It''s a fairly trivial task to learn C# if you know Java and you can use DirectX for graphics.

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I think there''s been a little confusion, let me see if I get what you want.

When you say you don''t want it to have to be downloaded onto the client''s computer, you mean you do not want them to have to "install" a program right, no seperate unzipping, and no icons added to the desktop or start menu, you''d ideally want if fully distributed just as an applet, automatically downloaded and run when the user goes to the website.

Of course the downside is, this makes almost no sense for user''s with dialup connections, because the dl size would be noticable there, but for broadband connections a component based applet seems fine to me ... and most user''s don''t clear their cache too often.

Another thing ... If the game is written to be able to run as an applet, you can still release it in normal form as a ZIP file or CD as well, for people with slower connections, or more long term commitment to the game ... there are many ways to simply wrap an applet into being made available on the players machine like an app ... icons and all ... but if you write it as an app, there are no app to applet wrappers that I know of.

Langauges for writing applets - Platform Independent - Java and Flash are the only too reasonable choices ... FLASH is much easier if the program logic is very simple and the interface is going to be cool or complex, I would guess Java would be simpler if most of the complicated pieces are program logic / behind the scenes stuff, and the interface is going to use more standard widgets. If you don''t mind IE platform specific, then of course ActiveX controls give you a lot of power, mainly because they open up the ability to mix and match different langauges for any task, and access to Windows components that aren''t exposed in Java or Flash. For ActiveX I would highly recommend C# for Java developers, cause they have almost exactly the same limitations, you will be used to it. C++ works as well, if you want to learn it, but I find that C++ based .Net or ActiveX components are just too damn complicated for beginners (too many things like class factories and exported functions to deal with - the guts are all coded manually, which is very error prone your first few times). C++ is my favorite langauge, but I have to recommend Java or C# for this task.

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quote:
Original post by neo88
Perl. Perl. Perl. As some of you may know, I am a HUGE perl fan, and if you didn''t know you do now Perl is extremly easy to learn and develop, there are some great modules that will help you get started on CPAN
www. cpan.net
what do you mean by real-time strategy?


Oh GOd, don''t start with Perl, you will develop such horrible programming habits and style that eventually you will just have to quit programming and start a different job because your habits will be so horrible.

After reading what you need I think Java is ideal. It gets a bad rap as being slow, but you can actually get good results if you just program it intelligently.

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quote:
Original post by celtic_aura
Thanks.
When I said I was a newbie, I meant a game newbie. I have a diploma in programming, so I know the basics....java vs javascript, etc.
Basically the person I''m developing this for wantsthe game to be accessible through a browser window.



I really don''t want to come across as calling you a liar by any means, but I would think that someone with a "degree" (assuming that''s what you meant by diploma) in computer programming would already know which language to use. Maybe I''m wrong.

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I have a post grad, 10 month diploma as a programmer/analyst. We did not touch on gaming. I do not game myself. I have never gamed. I am simply a beginner programmer who wanted some suggestions from people who have been game programming for more than two seconds. I am also researching/studying methods of game programming besides considering everyone''s input.
I''m not quite sure what you thought I might have been lying about, but oh well. No worries.

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quote:
Original post by andy_fish
Oh GOd, don''t start with Perl, you will develop such horrible programming habits and style that eventually you will just have to quit programming and start a different job because your habits will be so horrible.


I dunno. Some of Perl''s constructs lead to very elegant programs. It just depends how you use it. Perl for gaming is interesting. Even with the OpenGL bindings and such, I never in a million years would have thought of writing a game in Perl.

To the OP, Java''s practically your only choice. Just about the only language that can run embedded in a web browser, and the other ones that can aren''t as well established, only for Windows machines, etc.

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