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Tron 2.0 Light Cycles

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A case when high tech graphics are a bad thing: I got the chance to play Tron 2.0 the other day, and I was looking forward to playing the light cycles since I like those snaking wall games. But I think the game''s 3D graphics make it much less fun than the 2D version of the game. 1) The walls are paper thin, so it is incredibly difficult to see some walls coming from certain angles. Plus, the floor is a grid with even more lines to make the walls hard to see. 2) The camera angle is behind the bike at an angle, which gives a nice-looking perspective for a 3D environment, but it deters the main focus of the gameplay. A camera directly overhead would be much more beneficial because it would be easier to plan your route. Of course, since the walls are paper thin you wouldn''t be able to see any of them from overhead... (The game does let you change the camera angle, but its max value is less than overhead.) The camera is also slightly to the side, which doesn''t help any. 3) The levels have pillars and other walls in them, which can and will block your vision of where you are driving at times. If the camera were overhead, this wouldn''t be a problem. 4) The grid on the playing field has no real meaning. Your path is not restricted to the green grid lines. The only reason it is in there is for a Tron-ish art look. If the lines were removed, things would be easier to see. In conclusion, I had more fun playing Nibbles on my graphing calculator. I posted this here in the Game Design forum because I wanted to make a point that fancy graphics should not take priority over gameplay. Unfortunately, the makers of Tron 2.0 probably felt that it had to look "professional" and hide the fact that the core gameplay elements haven''t changed in more than 20 years.

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There is the option to play with the mouse controling the angle. I actually perfered that over the regular mode. (i also had to reverse the axis too to get it to what I want) I didn''t mind the whole feel of the game. Yes the walls were a little too thin but if you can set the game with the mouse as the camera... you should have no problem spotting the walls.

I don''t even think in tron the lines meant anything. At least the movie they didn''t. (try and remember the spot where the 2 cycles pinched off the one cycle on either side of them.

I liked the cycle game... although it was a pain in the ass to win, i still liked it. I wish I could play it on a lan to see if I was good against friends. We can''t all rely on blocks for graphics forever.

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Long before Tron 2.0 came out friends and I were playing the Light Cycles game in 3d on a lan. It was fun until me and another friend had a four hour duel in it. That made me sick of it for life.

Anyhow, its freeware, very small, OpenGL and very fun. Its called LightBikes. Google for it and have fun.

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Agreed, they''ve really botched the lightcycles. IMO it would have been much better if they''d not done all the powerups and ''different arenas'' (further than different-sized rectangular spaces, at least) and just let you play, like in the movie.

Of course, the greatest sin is that they had none of those hovering stamper-things (''sentinels''?). It''s not lightcycles without them!

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3 | Enginuity4
ry. .ibu cy. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu

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quote:
Original post by superpig
Of course, the greatest sin is that they had none of those hovering stamper-things (''sentinels''?). It''s not lightcycles without them!



Actually, the Sentinels (according to the movie, at least; never was good at the arcade game, so I can''t speak about that...) weren''t part of the Lightcycle game--they were from the Tank game (which is named in the movie, but I can''t think of the title at the moment). The sentinels only became involved after the three left the arena.

quote:
Original post by superpig
ry. .ibu cy. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu


I''ve been meaning to ask--what the hey is this? (Feel free to e-mail me the answer, if you want, since this forum''s not really the right place to discuss this...at least, I don''t think it is...)

-Odd the Hermit

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no no, there was no tank game in the movie, the tanks where diffrent virusies he wrote to try and hack into the main frame.

-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

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quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
no no, there was no tank game in the movie, the tanks where diffrent virusies he wrote to try and hack into the main frame.

it''s been a while, but i though the people in the movie (computer-side) were the virii (they called themselves "programs")... i.e. he wrote "tron" to infiltrate the security of the MCP.

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I remember recognizers from Tron: Deadly Discs on my Intellivision in the 80''s. That was an awesome game. If the connections weren''t so corroded, I''d get it out today and play it.

I don''t remember seeing it in the movie, except when they introduce Tron himself, and he''s annihilating all those bad guys. But that was years ago, and I just remember snippets of the movie.

Wow. Intellivision. That rocks. I also played a lot of Snafu. It was a rip on lightcycles, but a very good one, with different play types, etc.

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quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
no no, there was no tank game in the movie, the tanks where diffrent virusies he wrote to try and hack into the main frame.



Hmm...I may be wrong, but I''m pretty sure that Space Paranoids (looked up the name!) is a tank game. Clu uses the same interface Flynn has when he''s playing the game, and later, when Flynn is fleeing from the tanks and the Recognizers (good catch on that, 5010), I''m pretty sure he says something along the lines of, "I never should''ve written all those tank games." (Also, if the tanks were virii that Flynn wrote, why would the MCP have a bunch to send after Flynn when he escapes on the Lightcycle?)

And krez--the human acted parts in the computer world were programs. Clu was a virus, yes, but most of the others were basic programs (one mentions being an accounting program). Tron was written by Alan, not Flynn (Flynn being the user who gets sucked into the machine world), specifically to monitor the entire system for illicit stuff and prevent it--basically, a virus scanner/firewall/security program.

-Odd the Hermit

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Yeah, thinking back you''re right; the Recognisers were from the tank game. Still, if the game is set in a system where things are coming and going, they should still be in there. Cmon, they were cool. It doesn''t have to make sense.

Oh, and my sig is my name spelt out in Lojban. I''m trying to learn it. The sig is actually spelt wrong (it comes out as "ricard ''superpig'' fine") because the fact that ''c'' is pronounced ''ch'' confused me; it *should* be

ry. .ibu cy. .y''ybu. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu

I might fix it if I can be bothered.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3 | Enginuity4
ry. .ibu cy. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu

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That is correct. You have great memory. I should mention that Tron is one of my favorite movies ever and I have it on DvD.

Too bad about Ram

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hmm it has been awhile so I''m not sure I thought the line was" I never should have written all those tank programs",with him meaning viruses... I just assumed that the mainframe converted them into its tools rather then destroying them. Like it did with most of the other programs remeber how the red ones where controlled by the mainframe and the blue ones where still indpendent.

But then again the virus could have refered to the yellow guy driving the tank.... hmmm

-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

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quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
hmm it has been awhile so I''m not sure I thought the line was" I never should have written all those tank programs",with him meaning viruses... I just assumed that the mainframe converted them into its tools rather then destroying them. Like it did with most of the other programs remeber how the red ones where controlled by the mainframe and the blue ones where still indpendent.

But then again the virus could have refered to the yellow guy driving the tank.... hmmm



Yes, Clu (the yellow guy driving the tank) was a virus written by Flynn. Virii are programs, too...

And this thread has been horribly de-railed, and is no longer about Game Design. We should probably stop posting to it before a moderator comes along and yells at us.

-Odd the Hermit

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I also immensely liked Armagetron. By default, it doesn't look like Tron at all, but you can download the movie/sound pack that will make the game into the movie. Supports LAN play too, but I never tried it out.

To me, a light cycle game just isn't the same without the intro voice saying, "Prepare to transport to lightcycle grid.." at the start.

The Tron 2.0 lightcycles were annoying. Too many bad viewing angles, and the AI exhibited the classic problem of either being too stupid (traps itself easily) or uber-smart (follows you from 0.0001 inches away and then SWIPES!) to be much fun.

Every lightcycle game I've played has had this problem.

---
http://www.gapingwolf.com

[edited by - FenrirWolf on October 16, 2003 9:04:53 PM]

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quote:
Original post by FenrirWolf
Every lightcycle game I''ve played has had this problem.


I don''t recall GLTron exhibiting that problem too much.

I think the key to fixing it is implementing a ''reaction time'' - that is, the AI works with data from X frames ago rather than the current frame. That way it could crash into walls before it even sees them. It''d need to be coupled with a predictive system - that is, the AI *knows* that it''s using old data and brings its schedule forward to compensate.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3 | Enginuity4
ry. .ibu cy. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Tron Deadly Disks on the Intellivision. YES!! Now THERE''S a game just begging for a remake.

I too have played Tron 2.0 and I didn''t think it was very fun.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Tron arcade game had 4 mini-games:

1. Lightcycles... gameplay is obvious
2. Enter the MCP (Master Control Program) Cone: Shoot the rotating blocks before they crush you.
3. Enter the Communications Circle while avoiding/shooting grid bugs.
4. Take maze: shoot all tanks (recognizers every 5th level)

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sorry to dig this up again...just got the Tron 2.0 game and had to respond

First...about Clue in the movie...Flynn made Clue inorder to get to the piece of data that shows that Space Paranoids (Flynn''s tank game with the recognizers) was stolen by the head of the company...which explains why the MPC uses them as they are considered it''s "property" (while Flynn is looking for the proof that the tanks and such are his property)

second...there were two Tron arcade video games...the 4 mini-games in one verson most are familure with...and a second game (Disks of Tron) which featured the player throwing disks against three opponets (disks could bounce off of walls and such)

Third...Tron 2.0 sucks...However I like the graphics...but everything also pretty much sucks. It was a stupid move to make it FPS basied...it should have been third person as this would allow you to have better spatinal awareness of enemy disks being thrown at you...Tron is and always was about raw gameplay...not some klunky RPG/FPS hybred crap...raw strait forward game mechanics over pointlessly ajustable user settings...Tron 2.0 should have been like some sort of 3D version of Metroid (classic 2D versions) crossed with Gunstar Heros, Robotron and other "old school" gameplay focused classics...as it stands the light cycles only help make my purchase palatteable...but even that largely sucks too...they really dropped the ball on this game

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