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Ziphren

n00b with some good questions.

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Hi, I already know the basics of programming, but I want to dive into 3d game creation, since I am overflowing with good ideas for multiplayer games, and my programming classes are boring me to DEATH. My questions are regarding engines and which language to use. I''d like to make a massively multiplayer game with simple, high-framerate 3d graphics, with minimal textures and lots of pretty lighting effects. Should I use Java or C++? Also, I really want to focus on the game -design- and not the coding, so I want to use a free 3d engine and a networking engine(?) to simplify the coding process. Can you guys reccommend some good free engines/libraries that I can use to speed up this process? Laterz() { FellOverDead = true; }

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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that it''s an Action/RPG 1st person game, hopefully with support for thousands of players in the same game.

later,
Ziphren

http://ziphren.iuma.com
http://www.newscientist.com/news/

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Use basic languages.... no high level stuff like visual basic or java... It would slow it down too much.

C, C++, Assembly.. those would all be fairly fast. C++ would depend on the headers you include. A typical borland bloated exe would go slower than a much more efficient stripped down version. Although that might not matter too much.

The easiest would be to take a look at the free source code out there. Like the Quake 2 engine (i think it''s free now... at least to look at but not for commerical. I donno.) or basically anything that was made on linux. If I was to make a 3d engine, i''d probably do a mix of assembly and C++.

that''s just me

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High aspirations, eh?

Java can be used for fast 3d graphics with the right libraries (quite pricy ones as of a few months ago)... same goes for sound. Its a much more difficult path to walk, however. Few (particularly here) will be able to help much with specific details (i.e. people can still tell you how to render heightmap terrain say, but they couldn't help you on implimentation).

If this is your first project, I might suggest Conitec. It will get you off the starting block quickly if you are looking to make a 3d game with those features.

No money to buy that? I really don't suggest anything based on the Quake 2 source (its a mess!). Try CrystalSpace, Faked Reality, NeoEngine, OGRE, or the venerable Genesis3D.

CrystalSpace, OGRE, and NeoEngine are all Open Source under the GNU LGPL (which means you can keep the source code to your application closed; any alterations to the libraries, however, must be released to the public). I wasn't able to find the license for Faked Reality, and the license for Genesis3D is somewhat more involved.

If you decide later you are looking for 2D game libraries, Allegro and Clanlib provide you the most complete set of functionality, whereas SDL+related libraries are more like OpenGL, but for 2D.

I know you're not looking for non-programming related tools now. I'm going to quote Yoda "You will be.". GIMP is an open source photoshop-like program, and its absolutely free. Blender is a 3D modelling program that is free, and Alias/Wavefront just released a free version of Maya for non-commercial use.

If your interested, I develop on my own distribution of Linux (based off of Knoppix, using KDevelop as a frontend to gcc 3.2; GIMP and Blender for content production; and I am currently using the Torque engine to hopefully produce a game that will gain me some recognition. I am 22, and its a hard long road to get this far. I was probably your age when I read in Maximum PC about the immenent open-sourcing of Genesis3D (in Nov. '97 or so), and have been striving ever since to get somewhere (I had been programming for 5 years at that point too). Its a long, hard road. I wouldn't have made it this far without all the people in the internet community that helped me, so I try to give back. Its a Karma thing.

[edited by - SteevR on October 23, 2003 10:09:09 AM]

[edited by - SteevR on October 23, 2003 10:26:54 AM]

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If you're interesting mainly in game design, I highly recommend modding an existing game. Half-Life is popular, but the code is a bit messy (mix of Half-Life C++ and Quake C = garbage). I liked Unreal Tournament -- UnrealScript is very much like Java, and the codebase is well-organized. I'm sure Unreal II and UT2003 use the same basic script language, since it didn't change from Unreal to UT.

EDIT: Oh, forgot you wanted it to be an MMOG. Well, as with all MMOGs, you have to ask yourself: Will there ever be thousands of people simultaneously playing my game? You'll be lucky if you can get 32 most of the time.

~CGameProgrammer( );

-- Post screenshots of your projects. 100+ posts already in the archives.

[edited by - CGameProgrammer on October 24, 2003 7:01:33 AM]

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while (GameDev == true)
{
newbie_MMORPG_dream++;
}

It is not feasible for one programmer with (some) amount of experience to write their own MMORPG. I know everyone wants to make the best EQ clone ever, but it''s simply not feasible. It would be very hard to get any sort of audience. Even Triple-A titles like Asheron''s Call 2 barely had 1000 players when I played a few months into the release. That was a Microsoft backed product using an established name with a large team of professional developers.

I would take the modding route instead, as others have mentioned.

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I think that the game being free and action-oriented will attract a lot of players. Personally, I don't like Asheron's Call 2... I don't like any games where you have to walk around forever just to get to something good.

I'm on a University connection with 1MB/sec of upload bandwidth, and at least 3.6MB/sec down... I want the game to upload a decent amount of data to each client. So it could get out of hand quickly, but I hope to get at least 50 players on the game at a time to start. The core elements of the game will be large, numerous action scenes in a small, dense city environment, seamless indoor and outdoor, with character development. I have many more unique ideas to make online gaming much more exciting, and frankly I'm scared to give away too much information.

I just want to make a game with super-simple 3d graphics, and a very low-level Windows XP optimized networking model, with compressed packets, maybe with the .NET framework? Or maybe it would be easier to get players and design the client/server structure on Linux?

I am tempted to post my whole design document though just so I can get more help with this huge project.



later,
Ziphren

http://ziphren.iuma.com
http://www.newscientist.com/news/

[edited by - ziphren on October 24, 2003 8:16:38 PM]

[edited by - ziphren on October 24, 2003 10:58:23 PM]

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Maybe your situation is different, but my university would NOT appreciate me running an MMORPG with their connection I''m sure I''d have my internet shut off within a week, if not less. Can you really use the connection like that?

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I have hosted Unreal 2003 and Half Life games before, and I''m --always-- listening to internet radio, so I don''t think the bandwidth would be too big of a deal.

However, I''m having MASSIVE problems figuring out how to start. I thought I would start with the graphics (I''m only going to have ONE map) and use that as a foundation for building the content of the game, then design the networking aspect afterwards.
I have been looking for days straight, and I still have not found a simple, step-by-step guide for something as simple as loading a map and a controllable camera.
If anyone knows a good set of sample code that I can use to start from, I would be -----greatly----- thankful!


later,
Ziphren

http://ziphren.iuma.com
http://www.newscientist.com/news/

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