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# Is this a good college to attend?

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I got a popup that said that there was an ITT Tech Institute here in Jacksonville I read the list of courses for the associate of science degree in Information Technology - Software and Applications Programming... Here are the courses in it: Jacksonville, FL Campus Information Technology Associate Of Science Degree Course Descriptions
GE117 Composition I
4 credit hours (taught online)
This course covers all phases of the writing process with special emphasis on the structure of writing and techniques for writing clearly, precisely and persuasively.

GE127 College Mathematics I
4 credit hours (taught online)
This course will include, but is not limited to, the following concepts: quadratic, polynomial and radical equations, linear functions and their graphs, systems of linear equations, functions and their properties and triangles and trigonometric functions. Activities will include solving problems and using appropriate technological tools.

GE192 College Mathematics II
4 credit hours (taught online)
This course will include, but is not limited to, the following concepts: exponential and logarithmic equations and functions, graphs of trigonometric functions, trigonometric equations, polar coordinates, oblique triangles, vectors and sequences. Prerequisite: GE127 College Mathematics I

GE217 Composition II
4 credit hours (taught online)
This course focuses on appropriate rhetoric structures and styles for analytical and argumentative writing. Special emphasis is placed on critical thinking, reading skills and elements of research in the information age. Prerequisite: GE117 Composition I

GE332 Economic Problems
4 credit hours (taught online)
In this course students utilize critical thinking and basic economic theory to systematically examine contemporary economic problems. Prerequisite: GE117 Composition I

GE347 Group Dynamics
4 credit hours (taught online)
In this course, students examine the elements of successful teams and small decision-making groups. Emphasis is on communication, critical thinking and group process techniques. Prerequisite: GE117 Composition I

IT103 Operating Systems
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
This course serves as a survey on typical internal functions of a generic computer operating system. The computers ability to manage such resources as memory, device, I/O, files and user interfaces, etc., is discussed to rationalize how a computer takes a users command and accomplishes the task. Some typical user interface of popular operating systems will be introduced.

IT104 Introduction to Computer Programming
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
This course serves as a foundation for understanding the logical function and process of computer programming in a given language environment. Basic computer programming knowledge and skills in logic and syntax will be covered. Coding convention and procedures will be discussed relevant to the given programming language environment.

IT106 Programming in C++ I
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
Students will write, enter, run and debug programs using the C++ language. Topics include simple C++ operations, functions, procedures and data operations. Corequisite: IT115

IT115 Visual Basic and GUI Applications
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
This course covers extended entry-level programming competencies in a given programming language environment incorporating principles in Graphic User Interface (GUI). Application of programming skills and basic GUI principles will be discussed and practiced. Prerequisite: IT104 Introduction to Computer Programming

IT203 Database Development
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
Students will be introduced to database design and implementation. Topics include database history, structure, installation, and maintenance.

IT204 Scripting and Web Authoring I
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
Students will be introduced to HTML and other markup language(s) or scripting/Web authoring tools. Project assignments include the development of simple interactive applications using each of the tools. Prerequisite or Corequisite: IT115 Visual Basic and Graphic User Interface Applications

IT217 Programming in C++ II
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
This course is a continuation of the preceding C++ course. Students will examine concepts of scope, arrays, strings, file I/O algorithms and data structures. Basic object-oriented programming will be presented. Prerequisite: IT106 Programming in C++ I

IT218 Programming in JAVA I
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
Student will be introduced to the essential concepts and programming elements of the Java language. Topics include Internet concepts, basic language concepts (declaring and evaluating data, statements, expressions control flow and input), the development environment, classes and objects and creation of applets. Prerequisite: IT115 Visual Basic and Graphic User Interface Applications

IT219 Programming in JAVA II
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
This course covers the essentials of applet programming (URL, audio, image, test, animation), error handling, debugging, threads and the client/server environment. Creation of application programs through projects is a requirement. Prerequisite: IT218 Programming In JAVA I

IT227 Data Structures
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
Through exploring fundamental data structures, data manipulation techniques and algorithms necessary for good program development, students will be exposed to methods of selecting appropriate data structures to represent data with a given set of operations on that data. Topics include abstract data types, trees and graphs and their traversal, priority queues, searching and sorting, algorithm design techniques, external sorting techniques, hashing, etc. Prerequisite: IT217 Programming In C++ II

IT250 Linux Operating System
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
Installation, configuration and management of a Linux operating system will be explored. Focus will be on functions that resemble the UNIX environment. Directory and file management, user account management and certain device management (such as drives, printers, interface cards, etc.) will be discussed. Prerequisite: IT103 Operating Systems

IT305 College Mathematics III
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
Students in this course study the concepts of limits and differential and integral calculus in the context of practical problems. Prerequisite: GE192 College Mathematics II

IT306 Software Application Programming
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
Students will apply math skills, GUI principles and programming techniques to develop complex application software. Teamwork, project planning and implementation are the underlying criteria for this course. Prerequisites: IT203 Database Development, IT217 Programming in C++ II, IT219 Programming in JAVA I

IT308 Software Development Capstone Project
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
Development of a complex software application in an area jointly agreed upon by the student as well as the faculty member. The faculty acts more as a facilitator and project manager for this final assignment. Prerequisites: IT227 Data Structures, IT306 Software Applications Programming

TB124 Problem Solving
6 credit hours (taught in residence)
This course introduces students to problem solving techniques and helps them apply the tools of critical reading, analytical thinking and mathematics to help solve problems in practical applications.

TB132 Strategies for the Technical Professional
3 credit hours (taught in residence)
The course reviews characteristics and trends of the global information society. The student will become familiar with basic information processing, research and computer skills, as required of the technical professional.

TB142 Introduction to Personal Computers
3 credit hours (taught in residence)
Organization of a typical Personal Computer (PC) at the hardware level is examined in a given popular operating systems environment. Terminology and concepts related to major PC hardware components and their functions will be discussed. Entry-level hands-on skills as well as theoretical knowledge in handling PC hardware will be covered.

TB332 Professional Procedures and Portfolio Development
4 credit hours (taught in residence)
Students are required to plan and compile their projects in the form of a portfolio. Application of professional procedures in interviewing and writing business communications are also included in this course. Prerequisite or Corequisite: All Required Program Courses


Are these any good if i want to become a programmer?
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quote:
Original post by SSJCORY

Are these any good if i want to become a programmer?

yes

no

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If no could someone reccomend something better?

Favorite Quotes:Gandalf: You shall not pass!|Smeagol: We don''t need you!|Sloth: Hey you guys!|

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It depends what you want,

A true college like university of florida would be a lot better.

If you want cheap and quick go to ITT.

If you want really cheap just buy some books.

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The key issue for you should be whether the school you will attend for a Computer Science (CS) major is accredited by ABET. google for ABET and search for schools that have an accredited CS program. Sorry "ITT" and "Devry" don''t count there. rofl~!

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(Why do people use source boxes when they are not posting source?)

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To keep the long post short. The highlights are annoying though.

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ITT could be good or bad depending on just what you want to program. It''s completely possible to be self taught and have no problem programming various commercial utilities (such as EDI related applications, general web development, etc), so I can''t imagine an AS from ITT wouild hurt. If your goal is to get a job that may require more than an associates degree however, I''d say check with the larger universities in your area to find out if they''ll accept the credits earned at ITT towards a higer degree. If not then it''s more of a waste of time and money than not.

If you want alternatives to ITT, look at community colleges in your area. Most of them work with the bigger colleges, and their credits are more likely to be accepted towards a better degree. The best part is that they''re relatively inexpensive in most cases (the classes required for my associates degree, not counting the cost of books, will come out to be ~\$5800).

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quote:
Original post by SysOp_1101
If you want alternatives to ITT, look at community colleges in your area.

Um, it''s really often is the other way around..ITT should be an alternative to a community college. Do you think any accredited University/College is going to accept credits from a non-accredited institution?

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''Um, it''s really often is the other way around..ITT should be an alternative to a community college. Do you think any accredited University/College is going to accept credits from a non-accredited institution?''

The major focus of the community college in my city is on certificate programs for such things as general IT, MCSEs, and nursing. In order to get credit for my work from the ''regular'' university in my area towards my BS, I have to take more, and in some cases different classes from the ones required by the community college to attain their AS. If all your going for is a certification or ''stock'' AS, such as the type offered by both ITT and the community college, then one is just as ''good'' an alternative as the other. The exception is if you want to progress further; then you have to decide based on what the institution you ultimately want to attend dictates (as I pointed out in my previous post).

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It looks like a joke program to me. I see no mathematics at all.

In my faculty math courses goes like this(not sortet by semesters):

calculus 1
calculus 2
calculus 3
numerical analysis

algebra 1
algebra 2
algebra 3 (optional)

discrete mathematics
probability and statistics

normal differential equations
partial differential equations

So just look for the program that gives more mathematics (other things are less important).

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I''d be very careful about putting alot of faith into course descriptions. My school has the exact same course listings as some other prominent schools like Johns Hopkins and Boston University. As it turned out, the main problem with my school is not the courses as much as the abilities of the professors. I''d place more emphasis on the tour of the school, from what other student''s opinions are, and the school''s distinctions rather than just course descriptions.

On the other hand, with computer science most of the knowledge comes from independant study. Classes teach very little more than the basics and how to get started. For example, if you wanted to get into game design, there''s not many schools that teach OpenGL or DirectX with their Bachelor''s Degree. For that type of stuff you will need to spend a little extra time on your own.

Overall, I''d say go for the most prominent and well known schools (they ussually get the best professors), but if you don''t get into Yale don''t sweat it, most of the work will be done on your own anyway.

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'It looks like a joke program to me. I see no mathematics at all.'

'GE127 College Mathematics I4 credit hours (taught online)This course will include, but is not limited to, the following concepts: quadratic, polynomial and radical equations, linear functions and their graphs, systems of linear equations, functions and their properties and triangles and trigonometric functions. Activities will include solving problems and using appropriate technological tools.'

'GE192 College Mathematics II4 credit hours (taught online)This course will include, but is not limited to, the following concepts: exponential and logarithmic equations and functions, graphs of trigonometric functions, trigonometric equations, polar coordinates, oblique triangles, vectors and sequences. Prerequisite: GE127 College Mathematics I'

There's not a lot of math involved in most associate degrees (or most programming for that matter). Other things being 'less important' depends on what type of programming you're doing. If you're planning on writing accounting software, accounting and business classes become more important than calc. If however you plan to do other tasks however, such as simulations or graphics, then yes, math becomes one of the primary factors in being successful in the field.

[edited by - SysOp_1101 on November 10, 2003 5:02:45 PM]

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I don"t understend how a programmer can have week math skills. I think that this academic program is a waste of time. If I could, I would probably shoot the inventor of this academic program.

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'I don"t understend how a programmer can have week math skills.'

Because for a large number of programming tasks, all you need to know is how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide. One company I worked for in the past wrote server side EDI processing systems, another wrote accounting applications for the web. Neither of these companies implemented anything beyond basic algebra in their code because it just wasn't needed.

Accounting for example isn't a complex task math wise (simple addition and subtraction); the true complexity comes in the form of knowing what needs to be added to or subtracted from. In this case understanding concepts such as 'contra accounts' and how they fit into the overall picture is far more important than having an understanding of calculus, trig, or any other 'advanced' math. The same thing applies to many other programming tasks that people do everyday.

Can advanced math be useful to programers: yes. Is it a requirement to make money as a programmer: no.

[edited by - SysOp_1101 on November 10, 2003 5:56:28 PM]

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''Because for a large number of programming tasks, all you need...''

I''ll give an example. Your simple task is to sort some data (simple enough, right?) .Now, as you probably know ,there are lot''s of algorithms for doing this task. Of course, you can just choose one of them and this will somehow do. But if you are skilled enough, and you know things like asymptotic notation and algorithm analysis, you will be able to choose the most efficient sorting algorithm for your case (memory size,one cpu or more .....)

I think that it realy doesn''t metters where you''re programming, and what you''re programming. A good grasp of theory ALWAYS comes at the first place.

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''I''ll give an example. Your simple task is to sort some data (simple enough, right?).''

If the data I''m sorting is part of a realtime terain rendering engine, I completely agree. Knowing the fastest way to sort the data to be rendered is of high importance because of the potential impact on the application.

On the other hand, if I''m writing database driven web reports, the fact that one algorithm may take 10 fewer or more clock cycles than another one really isn''t an issue since the user of the application probably can''t tell the difference one way or the other. So long as there isn''t a large time lag, one sort method is just as acceptable as the other. Furthermore, If I''m developing the application using say SQL Server, I generally only have one choice for sorting items which is ''Order By''.

In the end, your argument has validity in many situations. For the majority of application developers (as opposed to ''component builders'') however, micro-optimizations aren''t as much of an issue as overall functionality of the program. It''s a question of ''is the data on the report accurate'' as opposed to ''how many times can I render that report per second''.

It''s not so much that we disagree on the overall issue of the importance of math, it''s that we disagree on it''s worth in specific cases.

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I''m not saying that I will use all the math skills I got from my university. Today, you have lots of ready programming tools, that will do things for you. But MATH its not just MATH.Its not just a tool for solving some problems. It is something that will change your way of thinking. In other words, it makes you SMARTER (not just for programming!).

Any way, it''s a democracy, and you can do whatever you want (you can even be like a monkey with no logical thinking at all :D).

I see that this is infinite discussion :D So this is my last reply to the topic (must study :D ).

GOOD LUCK TO ALL :D

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I can't appreciate whatever circumstances you may be in that would cause you to consider ITT Tech, but there must be better options.

If a "real" (ie. 4 year) university is impossible for whatever reason, go to a community college. An associates is worth alot more (god forbid you decide you don't wanna work in IT after going to ITT Tech), and the credits you earned would actually mean something should you decide to transfer or get a bachelors at a later date.

Another point is quality.. I'm suspicious in that anyone who could properly teach a course on Data Structures or Operating Systems or higher level mathematics would be valuable enough not to be doing so at ITT Tech.

Even if prospective schools don't offer courses specifically related to programming, I'd be far more impressed with a self taught programmer with an Associates of Science with an academic background in math, physics, etc then someone who took "Programming in C++" I and II from ITT Tech.

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[edited by - wild_pointer on November 11, 2003 6:06:36 PM]

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I am a student at ITT and have been going there for a year.
You get plenty of math and alot more programming than you think.
ITT is a private school so it costs a little more but the education is just as good as a university. But ITT is a technical trade school and not a university so you have smaller classes and are able to ask the teachers questions and have discussions in class and all the tutoring you can handle. Where I live the programming students at my school tutor the computer science students at the big university. Because its all about hands on and nothing to do about history class. Plus they also have bachelors degrees and not all universities will transfer other schools credit anyway.To add one more thing ITT is an accredited school because you can''t get fedaral aid from an un accredited school.

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quote:
I''ll give an example. Your simple task is to sort some data (simple enough, right?) .Now, as you probably know ,there are lot''s of algorithms for doing this task. Of course, you can just choose one of them and this will somehow do. But if you are skilled enough, and you know things like asymptotic notation and algorithm analysis, you will be able to choose the most efficient sorting algorithm for your case (memory size,one cpu or more .....)

Actually, I''d prefer that my engineers implement the simplest algorithm first and change it only if a) the application is slower than the spec indicates, and b) profiling shows that the sort is a bottleneck.

--
Dave Mikesell Software & Consulting

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I''m doing now a student''s mini-project in INTEL, and I can tell you Mr.Software & Consulting, that INTEL''s opinion is different than your''s :D

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There''s a lack of mathematics, physical science, and arts. (I''m a bit surprised they kept composition and economics.) These areas would be covered by an accredited university degree.

You would take calculus I/II/II, discrete mathematics, linear algebra et. al. not "college math" I/II/III. You would have physics, chemistry, and perhaps biology for science courses. And you would have some philosophy fundamentals as well as a course or two covering world literature and art.

It''s not a "well rounded" program. I''m assuming those are the core courses, and that you have elective to take in addition. Otherwise, it''s a bare minimum program.

If you already had a degree in something unrelated to CS, you could take this and change careers. I''d encourage you to opt for a university program if it is feasible.

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quote:
Original post by dmikesell
Actually, I''d prefer that my engineers implement the simplest algorithm first and change it only if a) the application is slower than the spec indicates, and b) profiling shows that the sort is a bottleneck.

If your engineers actually test the software to the degree that the bottleneck is apparent I applaud them. I would not expect my engineers to write a sort. I would expect them to use a sophisticated but appropriate algorithm and already proven code. Hand coding a bubble sort is not acceptable when we have proven code for a heuristically optimized quick/merge/insertion sort available.
Proving the code takes far more time than writing it. Why change something when you can do it right the first time?

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