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Ideas for Dynamic games

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I''ve seen the growing number of dynamic games begin to appear of the years but they are more often then not really bad games. So I decided it would be see what ideas forum members have for dynamic games. Just think of as many diffrent ones as you can, that would also be fun to play. The core of the game should be completely dynamic and not static or scripted. Also lets keep them in the realm of relistic to implement ideas. ----------------------------------------------------- Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades Current Design project Chaos Factor Design Document

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game ARE dinamic, i did not understand what you are saying, you mean those trigger happy game which it''s more like a puzzle (find the correct button to go forward)????????

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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quote:
Original post by Neoshaman
you mean those trigger happy game which it''s more like a puzzle (find the correct button to go forward)????????

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Usually those are triggers that''s scripted or already setup by code.

I don''t understand what you mean though. Do you mean using a FSM or something and letting the game choose which path it needs to go? Give a little more detail, I would love to through some ideas if I understood.

-UltimaX-

"You wished for a white christmas... Now go shovel your wishes!"

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A 3'rd Person Action or RPG game (I prefer Action) in a medieval/fantasy environment (yes, I know the setting isn't original, but it is still incredibly fun). Either make it one giant map, or broken up into many regions that can be freely entered. Have the "Good Guy Area", the "Bad Guy Area", and all the lands inbetween.

Naturally, in the "Bad Guy Area", there's an Evil king/queen/lord/etc, who's trying to control the whole land by means of his armies, or obtaining magic artifacts, and so on. You play as a soldier/knight/ranger/farmer ... (doesn't much matter). Your goal is to kill/defeat the Evil Bad Guy, because no one else is going to be able to do it, and you've got high hopes. Problem is, that his/her place is very well guarded, and dangerous. And you wouldn't be able to defeat him/her anyway ... yet.

In order to win. You have to defeat enemies to increase your own strength/skill/power. Or find mystical items to aid you. Or help out people/villages/kings so that you'll gain support, and perhaps be able to lead some NPCs.

There would be no one item/ability required to win. Maybe you could defeat the enemy with just strength, just items, or just support. But ideally it would be a combination that best suits you.

There'd be some scripted material involved, but it would be minimal. And never "integral".



[edited by - Veovis on November 29, 2003 1:44:48 PM]

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I assumed that everyone knew what a dynamic game is but I guess not, so I''ll explain it to all those who don''t know. The idea is that rather then having all of the game elements determined at design time you instead set the game up so that the game generates most of those elements itself. Thus the game is never the same twice.

For example lets say you wanted to give people in your game names you could a have a list of last names and list of first names, and then whenever a name is need the game would choose a word from both lists and thus a random name is generated, and the game itself would be said to have dynamicly generated names.

Let me just throw an indea out.

Dynamic theif game.

Goal is to earn as much money as you can. You accomplish this by breaking into diffrnet buildings, overcomming the buildings security and stealing anything of value within the building. Each building is generated dynamically. The money you gain from your heists is used to buy diffrent tools to aid in overcoming security measures and to help carry more loot.



-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

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One of the big games on this dynamic list is Diablo and diablo 2. Algorithms are used to generate the levels of the dungeons so that each time you play its a different maze of some sort. Knights of the Old Republic is a dynamic game as well, since you the player doesn''t have to choose the same path to play the game.

I like the theif idea. Your game could have a database of treasures, security systems, security companies, objectives, and graphics to fill the offices and buildings you''re going to be robbing.
The game then picks an chooses from these lists using algorithms and generates floor plans for the buildings. Not such a hard thing to grasp. Makes the game different everytime and saves you from having to do hordes of level design. Once you''ve built the template for the software to build off of then you''re set for 1000 or more levels if you''ve done it properly.

What about agame where you sail the seas in the age of sailing. You buy your ship, you find your crew. The game generates every other ship out there, from different countries fleets to pirates. You as a player can choose alligence to any flag or become you''re own mercanary. There are a few huge missions that need to be done to drive the story forward, but the majority of missions are all generated based off of what flags are warring with who. Exploring coast lines could bring you to villages that you can either chose to trade with or to plunder. Your actions send waves through the game world that affect relations between different flags. The game is never the same twice.

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quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
I assumed that everyone knew what a dynamic game is but I guess not, so I''ll explain it to all those who don''t know. The idea is that rather then having all of the game elements determined at design time you instead set the game up so that the game generates most of those elements itself. Thus the game is never the same twice.

For example lets say you wanted to give people in your game names you could a have a list of last names and list of first names, and then whenever a name is need the game would choose a word from both lists and thus a random name is generated, and the game itself would be said to have dynamicly generated names.

Let me just throw an indea out.

Dynamic theif game.

Goal is to earn as much money as you can. You accomplish this by breaking into diffrnet buildings, overcomming the buildings security and stealing anything of value within the building. Each building is generated dynamically. The money you gain from your heists is used to buy diffrent tools to aid in overcoming security measures and to help carry more loot.



-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document




OH! i understand!!!
but''s it''s you which confuse thing, actually you are talking of procedural game (generated content)
while a dinamic game is a game which react to input (decision making) and a simple fsm is good to do this (of course everybody must turn to systemic level design to have a good dinamic)

yeah i''m working on that for the same purpose (cut down dev for little team) i have the adventage to be an artist then i can build more meaningful generator (don''t just rely on randomness or you will be disapointed)

check the ai forum, there is some discussion like this by bishop_pass

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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no. I''m afraid your the one mistaken you have though backwards.

Dynamic means changing, and moving.
Procedure means way of achomplishing something.

A Finite statment is a procedual system its not even the least bit dynamic.

neither one has anything to with reacting to input... well maybe procedural but that only because you would have a procedure for processing input.

Its not really an AI forum question since creating dynamic games doesn''t requrie any AI. Altough one could use an expert system could be employed to improve the dynamic generation of objects, but its not required.

For instance an rpg quest generator could be entirly random and look something like this:

Quest Q = type.

Type1 = Kill X number of monster M.
Type2 = Bring this object to person P in city C.

there you go now the game can generate nearly an unlimeted number of quests by selecting the various elements form their approprite list.

Sailing game sound like it could be fun, kind of reminds me new horizons and pirates. Altough thats probably because that there are certain common elements that all age of sailing games would include.

But come on people don''t hold back I''m sure that there must be more then one person in this forum with game ideas afterall last time I checked this was a game design forum.





-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

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I believe that:

Quest Q = type.

Type1 = Kill X number of monster M.
Type2 = Bring this object to person P in city C.

Is absolutely NOT dynamic. It might be random, but still x is determined and M is a hardcoded creature. Same for p and c. They are hardcoded either.
Procedural means:
Take a random number, mangle it through an iterated formula x times and voila result. For every random number you get a COMPLETELY different outcome after x iterations. Take a look at plasma clouds. THOSE are procedural. You could have a function that mathematically generates buildings ( procedural), places them random (procedural) in a random(procedural)landscape.
The fun part with procedural is, that if you take the same random start number (seed) and paramaters, you will end up with the exact same result.

Why procedural and not random(timer)? You want to be sure that you can generate the exact same situation again.
For example when the player gets a quest where he has to kill x and return item y to person b in house z in village b.
If person b returns with the item and can''t find back the house z or even village b, he gets very frustrated now, wouldn''t he?

Note that it impossible to store all terrains and houses and npc''s and monsters that you generate random(procedural) because you will run out of memory very soon.


Look at all the pretty colours!

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"Take a random number, mangle it through an iterated formula x times and voila result"

That not exactly what procedual means. Procedual is simply a method for doing a task. In your example the task would be to determine a result. The procedure refers to how you arrive at the result.

The procedure is the method for generating the Dynamic content as apposed to static content which is determined at design time.

As far as storage goes why couldn''t you store all that information? Its only data, how large it be? Besides it all depends on the design on the data is stored and retrived it could write it all to files on the harddrive, or perhaps it could simple store the seed value used to generate the world. That way the world is kept constant for each game.

-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

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ok , i understood YOU ARE THE ONE WHICH CONFUSE THING
and you should learn about ai more it would be helpful
well procedure can be use to generate dinamic content or content as well
dinamic mean that the action (generating content then as action) change according to previous input, aka quake 3 is very dinamic their is no party which is the same at least twice

game are indeed very dinamic but not their structure and content

i''m working on that i have a far more advenced thought than your quest generator (quite poor and meaningless), actually i have procedure to build infinite world with infinite complexity, and still have memory (because of procedure) all content could be generated on the fly with coherence and only limited by the cpu strength (density of details), feature like Dinamic Narration Automaton (well still prototype), character generation, object generation, setting generation, plot generation, simulation of character, all evolving around player''s action (next town is build from a story logic rather than anything else) and else more more more (coming soon i will post something in tha ai forum)

the fun about this is that not that hard but find to enter all meaningful rules (the real design) used to generation (kind of system expert like) and balancing cpu, the methode use could be hierachical FMS for action in his simple level (ok i''m not handling text parsing and conversation)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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I''ve been toying around with a completely dynamic world setting for a while (other than the landscape, which would be rendered previously). I''ll give it with the game I thought it up by...
(BTW, in my fantasy game design, this is somewhat of an MMORPG)

Imagine a futuristic city, enclosed in a bubble due to the dangers that lie outside the city. Now, there are other cities, but communications are sparse between the cities, since air travel is too dangerous and only true adventurers dare the wild outside. The server would have to mantain a -lot- of world dynamics, such as wild-men raids, etc for this to work, but imagine a store clerk your character knows. The game generated the fact that they have known each other for a long time, so the clerk tells your character much of what goes on, what troubles him/her, etc. (The troubling part would be very limited.) Now, imagine each character has a network with every other characters he/she know or has seen. (For the characters he/she has only seen, they would only remember them, if that.) Several nodes will describe how the relationship of two characters are with each other, and they will be different for the each character, so each one can have a different attitude towards each other. Some of these nodes will have to be generated, but most will be developed. A communication network also exists, wherewith characters can find out what happens to their friends over long distances via messengers (though it may or may not take a long time to get such a message). So imagine this clerk situation. Let''s say his sister in a distant town (not a bubbled and protected city, mind you) is raided by forest people, and a messenger escapes. Now it takes him two weeks to get to the city, but then he delivers his message to the leader of the city, and everybody finds out. So the clerk finds out that the city which his sister lives/lived in has been raided, and he asks you, a known adventurer to go check everything out to see if its okay. Voilà, you have a quest! He can ask you to bring her back to him, a note, whatever. Maybe she''ll ask you something before you leave for the city, or wherever you may go next.

There, that''s my idea, and I know it''ll probably not suffice completely since I''m kind of rushing this post. So, sorry, and please feel free to ask questions, criticize, and/or expand upon my ideas. Thanks for reading this!

-iamunknown73

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you guys are comparing apples and oranges. you could even go to say that ALL programming, even object orientated, is procedural.
What we''re talking about in this thread is GAMEPLAY. Focus on that not the programming. Forget about how the code works for the game. It doesn''t matter.
Procedural gameplay would be something like teenage mutant ninja turtles 4. final fantasy 3. original mario bros. No matter how many times you play the game it will allways have the same levels.
Dynamic gameplay is when levels are generated at play time. Resulting in a different level every time you play. It may be attained through procedural programming methods, but the content generated is still DYNAMIC. Its not stored in a file like quake levels are.

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How's this?...

MOMOG - Multiplayer Online Micro-Organism Game

The world: a flatlander (2-d) liquid solution with X=length and Y=depth. Top of solution is an air barrier.

World Elements:

Main Solution- random mix of liquids with gradients of dissolved solids

Air- layers of gases above the solution

Solar energy- based on random star properties created at start: brightness, heat, day length.

Solution Objects:

Debris- random chunks of resources, toxins, inerts, or combinations thereof. Initially they are floating randomly throughout the solution but during the game the solution is seeded with fresh debris that rains down from the air layer.

Non-Player-Microbes (NPM)- randomly generated structures and metabolisms that live, grow, and die in the solution. May be passive or aggressive.

Player-Microbes (PM)- Properties/components start out simple and are developed by player over time. Player controls the nucleus to produce signal chemicals that control various equipment such as flagellae, digestive vacuoles, and change the structure such as increasing the membrane shield, etc. Also may launch toxin missiles or grappling hooks, etc.

Objects of the game:
1. Compete with other players for survival while building your PM so that it can live in ever-deeper-darker-denser levels full of highly aggressive NPMs with treasures (resources, organelles/equipment you can install and use). 1st PM to touch the bottom wins.
2. Dominate the solution by killing opponent's PMs while growing, herding, protecting, and farming your resource-gathering NPMs.
3. Dig into and explore the insides of a huge chunk of debris full of resources, toxins, passive and aggressive NPMs while competing with other PMs in the race to the core.

Would this be considered a dynamic game?


[edited by - 5010 on December 3, 2003 3:04:41 PM]

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quote:
Original post by Neoshaman
that''s what i''m talking about



No you aren''t. You''re arguing that the idea of a dynamic game isn''t what TechnoGoth is saying it is. Yet he''s saying the exact same thing I am. A dynamic game is one where level data is generated at play time. Therefore making a different level each time u play, in theory. You''re telling him that this does not make a dynamic game. It makes a procedural game. But as you''re explaining it, the game is only procedural in it''s code form. You''re arguing over something that is pointless. What technogoth stated at the beginning is eventually what u agree''d with yet still insist that he is wrong. Get to the point of the thread. there''s been 2 ideas presented other than techno''s original idea now. There''s been a few examples. There should be enough material here to understand what a dynamic game in this context is. One where level data is not stored, but rather is generated. Game content changes each time it is played.

5010 - Your idea is definatly dynamic. Yet it is simple. This goes to show that making games dynamic is easier as the game world is simpler. Tetris is dynamic because its never the same game twice (so to speak). Most other puzzle games are to cause you aren''t being fed the exact same peices every time.

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parler dans une langue différente peut être sujet à confusion, je l'admet, il se peut que j'ai mal compris (use alta vista babelfish to translate like me)

well i think that generate content on the fly is not the condition to have dinamic game because the game himself remain the same only the form change, if i'm looking to a picture which is been drawn on the fly it doesnt make the drawing dinamic (like watching the rendering of a scene for ex)
dinamic mean that the context is take in a count in the reponse of the system and the system evolve changing himself (however procedural did not exclude dinamic, they are even strong in symbiosis)

but it's just word, when i argue about definition it's more to find what's behind the word than proving someone else is wrong, once i get the pint (by analysis of the feedback) i would start thought on the matter, i'm for evolution (in a sense) take this like an attempt to sync myself (even if i'm not that skillful in communnication, i apologize then )

EDIT: procedure as a serie of predifine instruction, ok then procedural game is a set of predefine content or stage?? but a procedure can be an expression which generate things as well in my mind (maybe the main flaw from me) then if the game did not change the procedure in which it generate object then even if the content is not store its the same for me, aka the procedure must change within the game as well (ex a character which react differently each time according to input from the world, or more precisly a character driven by GA or NN as ex)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


[edited by - Neoshaman on December 3, 2003 4:54:03 PM]

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5010:

Interesting idea, but rather equipment and npc, I think it would be more interesting if players choose from a verity of diffrent base lifeforms. They then attempt to eat other players, some lifeforms would be poisonous to others, others would make you stronger and help you evolve into stronger lifeforms.

-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

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quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
5010:

Interesting idea, but rather equipment and npc, I think it would be more interesting if players choose from a verity of diffrent base lifeforms. They then attempt to eat other players, some lifeforms would be poisonous to others, others would make you stronger and help you evolve into stronger lifeforms.



Maybe, but having organelle-equipment options allows players to devise different means of attack and defence vs other PMs. Also the existence of NPMs allows for single-player versions.

[edited by - 5010 on December 3, 2003 6:43:18 PM]

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write an algorithm that determines what makes organisms poisonus to each other and which organisms are healthy to each other based off of organism traits. As you play the game you create the organisms by absorbing new chemicals, dividing yourself into a new form, evolving little things like a foot. A few dozen traits and basic organism types and you got yourself a system that can make 1000''s of different organisms to play with. Essentually you''d be evolving your own microcosmos. This idea is very intrigueing

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UFO: Aftermath is a dynamic game in that it generates different city maps every time you enter a mission area, which is pretty good and cool


In my RPG, I want most of the world to be automatically generated. This includes cities (their position in the world map), city areas (industrial, downtown, residential etc.), buildings (bars, apartment complexes etc), rooms (living room, study, office etc.) and items.

Also, I want most of the NPCs to be created dynamically and I want to give them certain....

...properties (besides common game statistics such as Agility and Intelligence) like rich/poor, good looking/ugly, jealous, etc

...ways to speak. Yes the dialogues should be also dynamicall generated and to make sure that every doesn''t sound the same way, there should be some variations on the way people talk.

...relations to other people, and this is perhaps the most important of all, because it will determine the quests they will want you to do for them. For instance, if guy A is jealous of guy B because he''s married to C, and guy A has the attribute "psychotic" he may ask you to kill B, or both B and C. If guy A is very intelligent, he may ask you to try and split B and C up (perhaps by planting evidence or something?)


I have to watch out when doing the dialogue and quest generation. The player should never be able to think "ahh, this guy is part this and part that because I''ve seen his way of talking before" or "Oh no, not another kill the jealous guy''s ex girlfriend quest!!"




------------------
"Kaka e gott" - Me
Current project: An RPG with tactical, real-time combat with a realistic damage system, and randomly generated world and dialogue.

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term to see to acheive dinamic game with dinamic generated content

systemic
procedural
constructural
cellular
semantics
organic
fractal
AI

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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