Well maybe you have forgotten but there are aspects other then Gfx programming. Such as Physics and AI. These things are just as important. Also even in the Most Basic of Gfx Code you are doing more then API calls. Sure using ASM or C wont speed up plain API calls but it will speed up that ROAM terrain or SOAR. Writing things other than Pure Primitive Drawing functions will benifit from using better code. And maybe it just shows you ignorance but we do Depth Sorting today. It is an important part of the renderer. If you dont Depth Sort Cheaply you will have lots of overdraw. And if you Depth Sort in one of those "Slower" languages you will end up not saving any time anyway. So in a way if you are using a bloated language/ Coding Style you dont have to do things like Depth Sorting. To finish off my Flame, the only time a compiler beats an ASM programmer is when the ASM programmer doesnt know what He/She is doing. ASM will always have the greatest potential speed and smallest potential Size. As stated in my other post something like VectorC will add so much more benifit to the speed of develpment with a very small loss in potential even to an expirianced ASM coder. Why did i just post here i feel so dirty for involveing my self in a thread about Language Wars, I wonder if this was posted to start a war or was it unknowing?