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ByteMe95

Future of 3D Realism

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ByteMe95    122
I''ve always wondered what will be the outcome of all this 3D programming. Every day there''s new hardware acceleration for something in 3D, making everything faster and nicer, and people seem to keeep coming up with new 3D shit to program that makes things look more realistic. So I was thinking, in the future, if we could process X amount of polys with every possible kind of lighting and very detailed textures, etc., and have it run smoothly, how close to reality could it possibly look like? I''m thinking of like picture quality, only in real time. I came across this site today, Max Payne , and it seems like the gfx they have in that game are the most advanced gfx I''ve ever seen before. I recommend you 3D buffs check it out, it impressed the shite out of me. Some of them look VERY realistic, it''s remarkeable. And that''s by today''s standards (kind of), so who knows what''s to come a few years down the road. Go check out that site and look at the gallery for some screen shots which they state were not retouched or anything, just straight out of the game. Lemme know what you think ByteMe95::~ByteMe95()

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Gladiator    127
The creation of earth and even the universe we live in is a realistic game! Imagine how someone controls you with their remote control. Seems possible to me. There''s nothing that seems to be impossible to me!

-------------------------------------
That's just my 200 bucks!

..-=gLaDiAtOr=-..

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ByteMe95    122
Hehe, all very true

But seriously, will processor ever be fast enough to create environments on your computer screen that look like what you see out the window?

And even if computers are fast enough, is the way 3D graphics is programmed capable of doing something that realistic?

I think this MaxPayne thing is getting pretty close



ByteMe95::~ByteMe95()

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Gladiator    127
I had a look at their website, and all I can say is "VERY IMPRESSIVE!!" If those are real screenshots, and the gameplay is as good as the screenshots, then that''s going to be one hell of a game! Wish I could do something like that

-------------------------------------
That's just my 200 bucks' worth!

..-=gLaDiAtOr=-..

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-BacksideSnap-    122
How far into the future? Eventually we''ll probably be able to plug in to 3D ''virtual'' worlds that can not be distinguished from reality. That will eventually be low tech as well. Hell, 500,000 years from now we''ll be considered cave men. Kind of wierd to think about though.

-BacksideSnap-

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alexmoura    450
quote:
Original post by ByteMe95

Hehe, all very true

But seriously, will processor ever be fast enough to create environments on your computer screen that look like what you see out the window?

And even if computers are fast enough, is the way 3D graphics is programmed capable of doing something that realistic?

I think this MaxPayne thing is getting pretty close



ByteMe95::~ByteMe95()


(Scrubbing hands with a bass voice) It only has to make you think that it''s real... once I... i mean, it gains access to your brain, all sorts of things are possible...

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
Actually, according to what I''ve heard they already have programs that can render realistic worlds realtime. Of course they only work on those 1000+ processor supercomputers, but hey! If we took one of our slow computers back in time 20 or 30 years it would be considered a supercomputer.

Besides there working on several new techs for going beyond the limits of silicon transitors they already have "Quantum Computers" that use hydrogen atoms for transistors. Of course they behave differently than transistors (acctually they really are not anything like transistors) but I dont know enough about it to explain it in more detail. Anyway they are WAY faster than the conventional processor and are WAY smaller, but they still have a ways to go. last I heard the biggest quantum processor had only 6 equivilant transistors which seems kinda small compared to the multi million transistors that are in our computers today, but they were actually able to use those 6 equivilant transistors to compute complex mathmatical problems way faster than a conventional processor could. They also have ideas for useing superconductors.

Anyway my guess is that in next few decades we might have real time radiosity/raytracing engines and probably no more polygons just NURBS! Man...that would be cool!

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Nail    122
Hi.
Just wanna note that all the time you are the maxpayne game. I think that this w
What the hell can we get out of this imresions.
I offer to start discussing the nature of its engine & ...
I looked at the 3d realms site & can say that they don''t promote their MAXPAYNE
But again i''m coming into my thoughts.
Does anyone have a point to start maxpayne engine understanding? UR welcome...



Nail [Nail Studio]

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IDC    122
It won''t be long at all. Remember computer speed is advancing at an exponential rate. According to Moore''s Law, and all the statistic out there, computer speed doubles every 12-18 months(every 15 months currently). And graphics accelerator speed doubles every 4-8 months(although this will slow down as we approach near photorealistic worlds).

Let me put that into perspective:

According to Moore''s law:
Average CPU speed in 12-15 years(based on 800Mhz): 819,000Mhz (819Ghz).
Average RAM in 10-15 years(based on 128Mb): 131Gb
Average HD in 10-15 years(based on 10Gb): 10,000Gb(20Tb)

Now if CPUs are advancing that fast, just take a guess how fast graphics cards will be by that time.
Note, these estimated specs are for an average family computer, not top of the range super-computer. The really poor out-of-date people will still be stuck with 150,000Mhz machines.

This doesn''t even take into account that we may come up with some amazing new technology that breaks Moore''s law, like quantum computers, molecular computers, biological computers etc. So you can consider it a ''conservative estimate''.

Needless to say, photorealistic graphics running in massive worlds with no hacks like BSP or portals(for speed) will be a piece of cake to do far before the dates given above.

We may also get lucky, and they might figure out how to create a decent VR headset, then we''re off!

Bearing this in mind, Murphys law will come into play here. Hence even with these super-fast computers, Windows will eat 70,000Mb of RAM, take up 300Gb of HD space, and take several minutes to load.

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IDC    122
BTW, Not impressed with Max Payne at all. Textures look detailed, lighting looks impressive, models are so-so. Polygon count looks pathetic, all the walls and floors are completely flat. I would guess most of those levels only display 1000 or so polygons at a time, which is really sad for any next-gen engine.

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IDC    122
Well I don't think things will get extreme as Otherland(getting sucked through the Internet into a virtual world), v.good book btw, damn long though. But look how far we've come over the last 100, 50, or even 20 years, and the pace of change is just getting faster and faster - the future is very exciting.

Although it's dangerous times too;
Genetic engineering - The movie Gattaca portrays a grim and frightening view of what might happen if we allow ourselves to 'enhance' humans through artificial means.

Reliance on machines - That H.G. Wells novel, I forget the name. The day the earth stood still or something similar.

Artificial intelligence - The Matrix comes to mind, note the alarming increase in CPU speed, and you can realise just how intelligent machines may get, it won't be long before they surpass us in every way.

War - It was all summed up in this quote by Einstein: "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

Edited by - IDC on July 21, 2000 7:11:30 AM

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Octarinne    123
>>
According to Moore''s law:
Average CPU speed in 12-15 years(based on 800Mhz): 819,000Mhz (819Ghz).
<<

The problem is that I believe that we are reaching the limits of the current technology. Unless we find a new technology we will probably have to use more CPUs and make them larger.

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
it''s a nice engine and all.. but what makes the graphics so pretty in that game is really the textures. my gawd, all i have to say is the texture drawer has a friggin gift.

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IDC    122
Octarinne: People having been saying we were reaching the limits for ages. But our CPU design keeps getting more efficient, we find better ways to cram in more transistors, we figure out how to make them use less energy, and do more.

Sure, it DOES have its limits in transistor size, but those limits won''t be reached for at least 20-30 years, and when it is, we will figure out other ways to make processors go faster.
A team at Cambridge recently figured out a way to shrink microprocessor transistors by 40,000x! And all over the world in laboratories people are working on these very problems even though they are far far in the future. There is absoloutely nothing to worry about.
Have you looked the the latest Coppermine chips? They are about half the size of a first-class stamp, and most of that is just plastic coating. And these chips manage 1Ghz+!


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Bully    144


If you have a closer look at the screenshots, alot of the realism is to do with more detailed textures and higher polygon counts, because today''s computers can handle them. There isn''t really any new techniques being used by those screenshots as I can see. But it is cool, that we are starting to get more realistic.

-David

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SonicSilcion    122
It might just be me, but issn''t the lighting on the models a mis-match for the actual lighting in the scene? I mean, the characters look like they were poorly chroma-keyed on to a computer generated enviroment.

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Criterion    122
As others have already said in this thread, those shots are ALL about textures. The models are low poly, the environment is low poly. Those textures are from a texture GOD(s). The only problem with having textures done like that though, as someone already pointed out, is that you have to add a lot of the shadow detail in the texture, rather than letting the geometry cast the shadows (since there is no supporting geometry there). This gives the effect sometimes of not fitting into the environmental lighting, not to mention when you see the outline of the object, which looks all nice and detailed on the texture, but a disconcerting straight line where your eyes are expecting folds of, say, cloth for instance. A perfect example of this is in the image to the left of the last bottom image. Look at his right arm.

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