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Paul Cunningham

The future of Racing Games?

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If consoles and PC''s keep getting more and more powerful to the point where you can''t tell the difference between real-life images and computer generated then what future do racing sims have? I can''t see why people would buy a new version of GT or ColinMc if the Graphics and Physics have been perfected in the previous versions. I think these games could by dying. Yourself? I love Game Design and it loves me back. Our Goal is "Fun"!

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ahw    264
I think that they will have to find something new, which is exactly what we want, and as such, is a Good Thing (tm).

youpla :-P

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MadKeithV    992
The same things kinda go for all kinds of games though, except those that have absolutely no basis in reality, don''t you think?


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quote:
Original post by MadKeithV

The same things kinda go for all kinds of games though, except those that have absolutely no basis in reality, don''t you think?



Well when you get into types of games that rely heavily on creativness then you can never become obsolete. But the racing car / air craft/ etc simulations only get better with better technologies.

So what i''m wondering is, after consoles and PC become extremely powerful, lets say 30 years from now, will there be a last simulation ever made?


I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

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MadKeithV    992
Well, then you''ll have reality without the drawbacks I guess...

Though you might still get new circuits, new airports, new airplanes, new scenarios etc...


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Nazrix    307
Yeah, if the graphics and physics were realistic, you'd have all the realism, but you could crash into things and not die.

Also, how often do you get to drive a race car in real life?

Simulation games would still provide the simulation for something you'd never get to do in real life.

Edited by - Nazrix on July 24, 2000 10:04:34 AM

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MadKeithV    992
SimSex!
( sorry, I REALLY couldn''t resist *sigh*, even as a moderator )

But I think that still, writing scenarios for games like that would be a valid avenue for game development. You would just not be making the entire engine again all the time.
It''s the ultimate engine to licence! Reality


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Justinfinity    122
a) it''ll be a while before any games are "perfect".
b) since it''s a simulation, they can keep adding cool things like prototype cars, effects like being able to fly your car (hey whatever)
c) same reason people buy the new version of baseball and football games, new players, new cars, new tracks. although these could be accomplished with downloadable updates, they still want to make money

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Octarinne    123
This problem has been existing for a long time in other products. For example take the toothbrush. I mean how many types of toothbrush does one person need? How long can they "improve" or "enhance" the product? Yet they still have to keep pushing stupid ideas so they can be "newer" than their competitors. Now I''ll go brush my teeth with my tartar control, anti-cavities, whitening, baking sodaifying, minth tasting three colored toothpaste... And some experts say all you would need is a toothbrush and some water! Who are they kidding!? ;-)

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quote:
Original post by Octarinne

This problem has been existing for a long time in other products. For example take the toothbrush. I mean how many types of toothbrush does one person need? How long can they "improve" or "enhance" the product? Yet they still have to keep pushing stupid ideas so they can be "newer" than their competitors. Now I''ll go brush my teeth with my tartar control, anti-cavities, whitening, baking sodaifying, minth tasting three colored toothpaste... And some experts say all you would need is a toothbrush and some water! Who are they kidding!? ;-)


Damn good point Octarinne Now this sort of opens up a new thread i guess... "Are games a disposable good/merchantise?" As in :No matter how well you make a game, does it has an used by date on it?



I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

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Mr Cup    122
I think thats the smartest thing an Initiate has ever said :-)

And my best friend get''s in a race car every other week end :-)

BUT, I dont think this is really a relevant problem. This issue isn''t going to be faced for a BLOODY long time. How ever one problem which we are having, right now, is the lack of creativity. Ever since ID created the FPS there has been sod all truly NEW actualy created. People have made new vertions of old things, reinvented old favorites but it all just seems so the same.

This Depressing rant was brought to you by my crap day,
"All the crap taste, and only half the fat"



As Mr Cup always says,
''I pretend to work. They pretend to pay me.''

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I think ColinMc2.0 was good for a few days of play but really its just exactly the same game all over with a slightly better feel (physics) to it. The worst thing was those concrete bails of hay. These little things in simulations annoy me no end

Need better physics, need better physics, need better physics...

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

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Niphty    122
Once the sim becomes like reality, it''s a simple matter of it becoming a marketting tool. Think about it, if you wanted to shop for a sports car, and you had this game with the top of the line mercedes models, top of the line jap sports cars, and top of the line american sports cars, well.. you could test them ALL before you drive them, without fear of.. well, anything

This will allow designers to test new ideas on the public BEFORE launching the car. It''ll totally revolutionize the car industry, if you think about it.

What we''ll never be able to do is to make the car "feel" the same way. I just widened my car''s track and slapped on some bigger, high grip tires, and i tell ya, the road feels so much different now. Soon i''ll get a completely new set of shocks and springs to complement the rest of things, and the ride will change again. No game can give you the sensation of sitting your butt down into a bucket racing seat and strapping on a 5-point harness, then revving the hell out of the engine and listening to it growl all the way back down the RPM band.

Ok, so test drive 6 satisfies the last of these.. but only when the car sits still. I had it rented for Dreamcast and pumped through my home theater system, and DAMN! that was some good vibrations. All of the cars, when sitting still, had this growl you wouldn''t believe. But they all sounded the same.. :/ and they sounded like high-whiney crap at higher RPM ranges. Need for Speed has them beat in respect to more realistic physics and whatnot. I also have Mobil1 Rally and ToCA2, both really great games I need a steering wheel, though

I think the games will get better, but so long as there are laws (no mad max or anything) then we''ll have to use sims to get the adrenaline rush to the common everyday joe Me, i personally on a sports car, so i can feel the rush anytime. But then again, i''m not the average person, i know how to drive, apex and speed-shift.. whoo!

AND, as long as there''s new cars, there''s a need for new sims. Need for Speed and Test Drive were both started out to showcase cars out of most people''s price range (give me the Mercedes CLK-GTR from NFS, please! ) and they''ve just grown and gotten better physics as they went along. We''re starting to get to the point where we can more realistically model damage in a real-time way, so.. it''s getting better, but i agree there''s a LOT of room to improve before it''s "real".

J

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
I think racing sim is not a software problem but a hardware problem. Imagine a box with 4 monitors (front,back,left,right) and dashboard, seats like a real car. When you sit inside, 4 of the monitors will show images so realistic that it makes you feel like sitting in a real car. You can also experience accelerate, deccelerate in the box and when you crash into something, you will experience a big force. Such a hardware would give a real driving experience and you can really feel the pace of F1 inside the hardware.

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draqza    122
This may be a little OT...

I want to see racing games turn a little bit more toward finesse, even in the arcade mode. GT2 for PSX required a little bit too much finesse to drive it in arcade mode--at least with the gamepad--but several new racing games I''ve played have arcade modes where all you have to do is hold the accelerator and maybe steer slightly.

I''d also like to see a change in the "invisible walls" trend. I''ve been playing Supercross Circuit for PSX (see a trend here?) and it has some of the most asinine track guards I''ve ever seen. If you hit a jump and jump past the track wall, you''ll simply bounce back and already be going in the right direction. If you hit the empty space between hay bales marking the wall, you''re likely to go flying off your bike. (BTW, there''s no animation for getting back on your bike--you simply disappear from your sprawled out crash position, and reappear on your bike.) If you run into a dirt wall, you''ll bounce off, rather than driving up it--this ruined my race several times. All of these are obvious programming choices, rather than just bugs...why are they in there?

--


All hail the Technoweenie!

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Well as it''s already been mentioned, it''s very much a hardware issue. The coders have the choice of using the systems power for physics and graphics which really take precedence over collision detection i guess. There''s just not enough memory in consoles these days that''s the mail problem i think.

I''d also like to know why everyone that makes a car sim thinking that the game has to operate from a first person persective. I really am missing the old top view for racing sims.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

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zedzeek    529
"
I''d also like to see a change in the "invisible walls" trend. I''ve been playing Supercross Circuit for PSX (see a trend here?) and it has some of the most asinine track guards I''ve ever seen. If you hit a jump and jump past the track wall, you''ll simply bounce back and already be going in the right direction. If you hit the empty space between hay bales marking the wall, you''re likely to go flying off your bike. (BTW, there''s no animation for getting back on your bike--you simply disappear from your sprawled out crash position, and reappear on your bike.) If you run into a dirt wall, you''ll bounce off, rather than driving up it--this ruined my race several times. All of these are obvious programming choices, rather than just bugs...why are they in there?
"
youve got a point there, i wanna computer game where i can drive off the track get on the highway , take my girlfriend for a walk like shes always neagging to do, stop off at the fish and chip shop and deliver them to my door WHILST theyre still hot after leaping a few cars on the way.

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zedzeek    529
in reply to the original question thers such a long way to go before we hit reality. take the latest sony machine 1.2 gb polys a second == 16 psx2''s . unbelivable amount sure but a normal photo is 30,000,000 pixels (new scientest) which at 75 fps is 2.2 gb a second but the thing is, real life aint limited to 15 pixel, plain coloured, no lighting, non shadowed, non reflective polygons. where as these 1.2 gb are.

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MadKeithV    992
It''s not always going to be polygons you know... and data doesn''t always have to be streaming. There are techniques that allow you to generate entirely photorealistic scenes in near-interactive rates.

Visual and aural realism is something we are very rapidly approaching. However, physics, intelligence, touch, and smell are still pretty much neglected.


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
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ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.

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void*    292
Well, once you start getting I-can''t-believe-it''s-not-reality type quality in games, I''d like to see more combinations of different types of simulations. (for all those who said it''ll be a long time, that doesn''t mean it WON''T happen.. I''m pretty sure it will happen sometime in our lifetime)

So, you''ve got a racing simulation over here, and a helicopter simulation over there, and somewhere on the other side you''ve got a racing-boat simulation... I''d like to see an ultra-realistic version of Spy Hunter (with great physics and changing weather conditions on the road, fluid dynamics on the boat, and terrain and cloud generation you wouldn''t believe for the helicopter... all in one engine)

Or, better, giving the player the choice to be in a simulation in the middle of a game of a different genre (this ain''t no chocobo race...)

Also, noone on this thread has mentioned sports games yet... they''re as much a simulation as your flying or racing game... and there are a lot of sports games that haven''t even been created yet, while the other sports games have a long way to go (at least compared to your average racing sim) before I would consider them "realistic"... For example, I played Lacrosse all through Middle and High school... but after I moved, there weren''t any teams to play on in my area, and I''ve NEVER seen a Lacrosse game made for any platform. Hopefully, when developers have exhausted the soccer, football, basketball, etc. games, they''ll turn to more obscure sports games to develop. (I don''t even like sports video games (real reality is so much better), but if someone came out with a Lacrosse game, I''d probably even go as far as buying a console just to get that game).

It takes more than just realism to be a good game. There won''t be a "last simulation game" because there are always new ideas.

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Capcommunist    122
Impressive technology does not a perfect game make. there are so many different possibilities, that a game is like a fingerprint, no two are exactly alike. And just like a fingerprint, none can be called "perfect". I already think that sim racers are repetetive and stagnant, and I don''t think better graphics will hurt them much. I''m fairly tired of the ''race'' mentality, games like carmaggeddon2 prove that there are a lot more interesting things to do in a hot car than just go forward.

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Niphty    122
So many games haven''t been fully covered but that''s just meaning that we''ve got work to do.. hehe.

Racing games can never be totally real. There''s no risk involved with a GAME.. especially for racing. You don''t wreck and your character gets lifelited by helicopter to the hospital for emergency brain surgery, nope, you get up and get right back on.

Your car never gets so crushed that you can''t drive it anymore, either. The game always stops and says "too much damage". You never blow an engine, or a valve on the engine, or something else that real racers face. Why? cause we''re not totally sure what makes those parts blow The valves have a certain ammount of life in them, but we can''t accurately model the life of non-living things

Oh well.

J

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phueppl1    122
Ok, think of it...

It's finally done: the perfect racing sim. You start get into your car, start the engine... you just touch the pedal a bit to much and there goes the engine... booom...Ok, 2nd try.. u got your car running, finally. So u drive out of the box and into the first curve... qqquuueeekkk.. into the sand and against the wall.. and so on and so on...

Would that really be fun!?!?

And also, what would happen to the real pro drivers? Wouldn't they loose their job, cause everybody gets to do the same on his PC at home?

I don't think a racing simulation needs perfect realistic physiks or something like that... it just needs to do exactly that what u expect it to do, or?

that's just my opinion.

cya,

Phil

Edited by - phueppl1 on July 31, 2000 12:00:59 AM

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