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# Software Piracy - Visual Arts Forum Policy Reminder

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You know, it's become pretty obvious recently that a large number of GDNet members who post in this forum are using pirated 2D/3D design software. So, just so anyone who didn't hear/read me say it last time, I'll say it again: ask questions that can be answered by reading the manual, saying you've "lost" the manual or "lost" the serial for Character Studio/MAX, can I do this/that/the other in the 3D app I have, which all more or less show that you've pirated the app, and you're goint to be banned, without question, and without warning. If I THINK you've pirated the software, but are not 100% sure, you're going to be set to "Nearly Banned" and will have a week to prove otherwise. Got it? Good. Think it's unreasonable? Too bad. So is expecting help from people who've paid large sums of money, typically, for the programs you've pirated. This topic is NOT open for discussion. -Nick "digisoap" Robalik Web & Print Design, 2D & 3D Illustration and Animation, Game Design http://www.digital-soapbox.com nick@digital-soabox.com [edited by - digisoap on February 20, 2004 10:12:58 PM]

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I know this is not open for discussion, so forgive me, but I think giving someone a big fat "nearly banned" tag just because you think they might be pirating software isn''t really justified. Also, how can you expect someone to "prove" they''ve not pirated anything. Not to mention that many visit less than once every week.

"Unfortunatly, when I sent the email, instead of writing "Best Regards" I ended up writing "Best Retards." - boolean

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As cows noted, I am aware that this topic is not open for discussing, but decided that it is ok to reply as the topic is not marked as closed (yet).
I agree with cows. It would be almost impossible to prove that you have not pirated software via the internet.

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and my two cent to it : ever tried to read manuals ? and ever tried to figure out what they mean there ?

that´s why i love forums

tilesets games sprites
http://www.reinerstileset.de

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There are also cases where people can legitimately use otherwise expensive software without owning it (at least for non-commercial purposes). For example, 3DS Max is installed on all computers in the Computer Graphics pool at my university. And getting access to this pool is not very difficult.

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quote:
Original post by BitMaster
There are also cases where people can legitimately use otherwise expensive software without owning it (at least for non-commercial purposes). For example, 3DS Max is installed on all computers in the Computer Graphics pool at my university. And getting access to this pool is not very difficult.

Even at that, the properly licensed versions have great help files and tutorials.

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Just my 2c here.

It is possible to obtain some extremely good software free of charge (here in the UK magazines come with CD''s and DVD''s full of the stuff), and there are cases when the help files and online manuals are removed for space reasons.

I cannot PROVE I legitimately own the stuff I use without, perhaps, posting the relevant CD to an angry moderator.

In general, it is almost impossible to prove something wasn''t done.

Being banned ''on suspicion'' does seem a bit harsh. That''s all.

Stevie

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I got ts3 from a PCPlus cover disc, with nothing but the installer, so me asking for help on an aspect of this would get me banned? Sorry but thats just stupid, what should I do... post my PCPlus mag?(I''m not allowed to copy the cover disc ).

And as BitMaster said, nearly every university has shedloads of software but getting access to the manuals is a tad difficult(if nigh-on impossible).

.:Cubicle2:.
Exactly what good does it do to ban someone from the forum for pirating? How does it even relate? It's definitely not going to help stop piracy. It's pointless.

EDIT: Some really young kids are out there making games right now, with a pirated version of Max 6. How would these 10-15 year old kids use a $5000 program, otherwise? If they want it, they have no choice. [edited by - Jiia on March 22, 2004 4:06:27 PM] #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster Even at that, the properly licensed versions have great help files and tutorials. While this is certainly true in some cases, it is not always like that. 3DS Max for example has great tutorials for modelling, but I was rather stuck when I had to develop a plug-in for 3DS Max as part of a practical. There were tutorials for plug-ins, but none really fitted for the type I had to develop. That let to a lot of improvisation. Besides, that is by the point, because pirated version also have the great help files and tutorials. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Jiia EDIT: Some really young kids are out there making games right now, with a pirated version of Max 6. How would these 10-15 year old kids use a$5000 program, otherwise? If they want it, they have no choice.
I want a Diablo. I can''t afford it. I suppose I''ll just go steal it.

The argument holds no water. There are free, if lesser, alternatives to the top-flight packages: Milkshape costs on $20, IIRC (most people spend more than that when they go out on Friday); Blender is free, Wing3D is free... #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Jiia EDIT: Some really young kids are out there making games right now, with a pirated version of Max 6. How would these 10-15 year old kids use a$5000 program, otherwise? If they want it, they have no choice.

This is basically true. People of that age won''t buy a proper copy of these programs. However, if they learn from it they might be future customers. I don''t have a problem with that while they don''t make money with it.
However, they should be smart enough to hide that they have a pirated version. I don''t want these forums to turn into warez (sic) discussions.

However, I do think that digisoap is going at this with a bit too much zeal. "If I THINK you''ve pirated the software, but are not 100% sure, ..." is way overbaord if you ask me. I have seen a lot of cases, where people created the wrong impression because English is not their native tongue (also a good reason why they haven''t understood the tutorial or help file completely). Going against pirated versions is a good thing, but there is no reason to have a Whitecloak attitude about this (if anyone knows Wheel of Time).

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quote:
Original post by BitMaster
quote:
Original post by Jiia
EDIT: Some really young kids are out there making games right now, with a pirated version of Max 6. How would these 10-15 year old kids use a $5000 program, otherwise? If they want it, they have no choice. However, I do think that digisoap is going at this with a bit too much zeal. "If I THINK you''ve pirated the software, but are not 100% sure, ..." No one forces you to come here. If you don''t like the policies of this forum, don''t visit. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Jiia Exactly what good does it do to ban someone from the forum for pirating? How does it even relate? It''s definitely not going to help stop piracy. It''s pointless. Its not pointless. Sites that allow rampant piracy traffic get shut down quite easily. Not mention sued, etc. BTW, I wish that the next time a moderater wants to post something, that''s not open for discussion, lock the thread. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites I am not arguing with the moderator about banning people for pirating. It is HIS forum. But, just because people don''t read the manual does not mean that they pirated it. Most software nowadays comes with electronic manuals (in fact, alot does not even have a printed manual) These are easily obtainable, if not obtainable from the company''s web site. So, you should ban people because they are stupid and don''t rtfm, not for pirating because they ask something that is in the manual. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites Hey mr moderator FUCK YOU! think you can ban us for pirating...the some who do can fuck off and leave but really, banning us dumbasses who never read the manuals have questions and i really dont give a fuck if you ban me DICKHEAD! #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster Hey mr moderator FUCK YOU! think you can ban us for pirating...the some who do can fuck off and leave but really, banning us dumbasses who never read the manuals have questions and i really dont give a fuck if you ban me DICKHEAD! >>How would these 10-15 year old kids use a$5000 program, otherwise?<<
Hmmm, I see what you mean now

BTW:
"us dumbasses" is correct, mods can see who you are even though you post as an AP... Just a little heads up

-UltimaX-
Ariel Productions
|Designing A Screen Shot System|

"You wished for a white christmas... Now go shovel your wishes!"

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quote:
Original post by digisoap
You know, it''s become pretty obvious recently that a large number of GDNet members who post in this forum are using pirated 2D/3D design software.

So, just so anyone who didn''t hear/read me say it last time, I''ll say it again: ask questions that can be answered by reading the manual, saying you''ve "lost" the manual or "lost" the serial for Character Studio/MAX, can I do this/that/the other in the 3D app I have, which all more or less show that you''ve pirated the app, and you''re goint to be banned, without question, and without warning. If I THINK you''ve pirated the software, but are not 100% sure, you''re going to be set to "Nearly Banned" and will have a week to prove otherwise.

Got it? Good. Think it''s unreasonable? Too bad. So is expecting help from people who''ve paid large sums of money, typically, for the programs you''ve pirated.

This topic is NOT open for discussion.

-Nick "digisoap" Robalik
Web & Print Design, 2D & 3D Illustration and Animation, Game Design
http://www.digital-soapbox.com
nick@digital-soabox.com

[edited by - digisoap on February 20, 2004 10:12:58 PM]

yes, yes, yes!!!!!
rule with an iron fist you evil dictator you....squash those insolent peasants and their filthy software.

they have to prove their inocence? huh...i always thought you had to prove them guilty....thats in the constitution somewhere isnt it ?

"A soldier is a part of the 1% of the population that keeps the other 99% free" - Lt. Colonel Todd, 1/38th Infantry, Ft. Benning, GA

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While most people who use 3DS Max in here probably don''t own it legally, some people never read manuals.

You may hold your own opinions, those people may annoy you, wether because they copy software, or because they are ignorant... But you''re not the FBI, wether people have pirated software or not... You may not condone piracy, and you have the right to mention it, but never assume such things.

Looking for a serious game project?
www.xgameproject.com

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Wow...
I could understand you banning people that are distributing or requesting pirated versions of software, but thats about it. I mean look at all the "how do i link to a lib with VC7?" topics in the programming forums, should they all be banned too? If everyone with pirated software was banned from all the forums gamedev would be dead (everyone would have the manual, so no need for gamedev :''( )...

I have over $7000 worth of pirated production software (i do pay for games! well most of them...) on my computer, now how the hell am i suppose to afford to pay for all of it while going to university? All i am using it for is learning, so i dont see the harm done. On top of this, when I go for a job interview once i graduate I will have exp with these tools so people will higher me and then buy license for the tools. My exp with my pirated software has already landed me 3 internships, including my one with EA this summer... Also, i introduced one of my bosses at my last internship to a profiler that i had been using (piratedly) and then they bought 3 licenses... Anyway, thats all i have to say. Well this was my first post in the VA forums, and will probably be my last as i am about to get banned.... #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by TheDarkening I have over$7000 worth of pirated production software (i do pay for games! well most of them...) on my computer, now how the hell am i suppose to afford to pay for all of it while going to university?

Criminals who rob and and steal and kill people use that same ''how else I am going to get it?'' mentality. Although still quite expensive, companies do sell educational versions. Almost all of the 3d packages ship a freeware learning edition as well.

quote:

All i am using it for is learning, so i dont see the harm done....My exp with my pirated software has already landed me 3 internships, including my one with EA this summer...

You used the software to enrich yourself, ie land and intership that could/might lead to a job. You gained from the software, but the company did not.

You are right one thing though, This could be your last post. Also its not very smart to admit you are breaking the law on a site where your identity(ip add''y) can be tracked and reported.

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quote:
You used the software to enrich yourself, ie land and intership that could/might lead to a job. You gained from the software, but the company did not.

It certainly isn''t a loss to the company either. He couldn''t possibly have afforded the software otherwise, so they aren''t losing a sale. Not to mention that the more people know and use the software, the more chances companies will buy it to work on their projects... And I will assume most companies do use legit software to work on commercial products... At least I would, if I was to start a game/3D company.

quote:
Also its not very smart to admit you are breaking the law on a site where your identity(ip add''y) can be tracked and reported.

At least he has the courage of speaking his mind. I too, believe some people around here are a bit too quick with the pointy finger.

Looking for a serious game project?
www.xgameproject.com

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quote:

Criminals who rob and and steal and kill people use that same ''how else I am going to get it?'' mentality. Although still quite expensive, companies do sell educational versions.

im not saying "how else am i going to get it." Im saying "how else am i going to learn it". These tools aren’t entertainment, aren’t earning me money, aren’t transportation, and are not someone''s life. And when I do start making money off these tools i will gladly pay for licenses.

quote:

Almost all of the 3d packages ship a freeware learning edition as well.

These "learning editions" are often lacking in features or still cost too much. And the free ones often lack even more features or have an expiry date.

quote:

You gained from the software, but the company did not.

Well in my examples, one company sold 3 more licenses, thats better then the one they would have got from me...

quote:

You are right one thing though, This could be your last post. Also its not very smart to admit you are breaking the law on a site where your identity(ip add''y) can be tracked and reported.

Now who are they going to report me to?

Anyway, I should say that I dont fully condone software piracy, only in the name of education.

(im sooo getting banned from the VA forum...)

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quote:
Original post by Max_Payne
quote:
You used the software to enrich yourself, ie land and intership that could/might lead to a job. You gained from the software, but the company did not.

It certainly isn''t a loss to the company either. He couldn''t possibly have afforded the software otherwise, so they aren''t losing a sale.

Well that is a little false.

1)He believes his value has increased from his use of the software.

2)Therefore, the software is an investment.

3) When you don''t have the money for an investment, you do not steal it. You buy a loan.

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quote:
Original post by intrest86
quote:
Original post by Max_Payne
quote:
You used the software to enrich yourself, ie land and intership that could/might lead to a job. You gained from the software, but the company did not.

It certainly isn''t a loss to the company either. He couldn''t possibly have afforded the software otherwise, so they aren''t losing a sale.

Well that is a little false.

1)He believes his value has increased from his use of the software.

2)Therefore, the software is an investment.

3) When you don''t have the money for an investment, you do not steal it. You buy a loan.

1) He''s actually helped promote the software

2) The software is a useful tool

3) There is a difference between taking something away from someone and copying something.

4) If you don''t have the money now, getting more in debt is not going to help you.

Looking for a serious game project?
www.xgameproject.com