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Is DeVry a good school to go to????

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Today there are no GOOD schools to learn game programming. These programs are just starting out for the most part. To learn game programming learn computer programming, read everything you can about game programming and last but not least, play games with a critical mindset, that is, analyse them as you''re playing them (structure, flow...)

Hey, if no one''s looking you may even take notes of your analysis while youre playing the games

I''m sorry to say this, but DeVry just wants your money.

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I go to DeVry and I am graduating next week as a matter of fact. Now let me tell you, DeVry teaches you a lot about a lot of different areas. They teach classes on C, C++, MFC, Java, HTML, ASP, Linux, networking, systems analysis, project management, and a heck of a lot more. Now if you want to go there to learn game programming from them then the answer is no. If you want to learn how to program then I say yes. DeVry does not teach game development. What you can do is buy books (like the Game Programming Gems series, by the way are the only real good game development books), then while you are at DeVry learning how to program, you can spend your spare time learning game programming specific information.

To answer your question is kinda hard. As I said I go to DeVry and I''ve learned how to program as well as game development but the game programming was on my spare time. There are other schools out there that are not universities but they teach game programming. These schools don''t seem to give you a lot of programming background. For example in DeVry you will take a minimum of 7 or 8 programming related classes (like C, C++, etc). I say or 8 because if you count PS/SQL in the second database class then it is 8.

I guess I still didn''t answer your question. From my experience I say...yes go to DeVry. For one it is now a university. Two you get a lot of hands on programming experience and knowledge. Three you get a lot of good networking and database experience that can help you especially if you are creating online multiplayer games. Four you also get some high up math classes and I am pretty sure you have the option of taking physics and calculus instead of the required classes if you wanted. Since I just woke up I can''t think of any other reasons right now but there are some more. There is no game development specific classes but it is easy to learn game development in your spare time once you learn how to program at a professional level. That is what I did. Since you will be doing that stuff in your spare time anyhow (educational) then it is not any extra work. Since you will know all about programming, networking, math, etc, then picking up a game development book and reading it is very easy. Before I started school those kind of books seemed hard but after a few semeters, books like the Game Programming Gems series are easy reads. One of my professors did some professional game development so I get a lot of advise and info from him.

I hope this helped. Depending on your background and motivation level DeVry will not be easy. But I wouldn''t change the fact that I went there because I learned a lot. You also get a lot of free software. I got Windows XP and .Net from the book store for free since DeVry has a deal with Microsoft to give away a lot of free software. You get a bundle that has like 20 programs on it from operating systems, to office, to visio, etc.

The last reply post said DeVry just wants your money and that is not true. Speaking as a person that goes to DeVry, it all depends on your campus. Go to a good campus (in other words in a good area) and you will have a good atmosphere no matter what school you go to.

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quote:
Original post by DizzyKronic
...Computer Information Systems at Devry... learn programming...
From the DeVry CIS description page:
quote:
Computer information systems professionals identify, analyze and design business solutions as well as develop, test and implement supporting code and databases. In this business-oriented career field, professionals must combine knowledge of business functions with expertise in computer hardware, applications software, databases and programming.
Doesn''t sound close to game programming.

The lesson here? Read the documentation, and decide for yourself!

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You mention "higher up maths" and then "maybe calculus" in the same breath, which confuses me.

Most decent Comp Sci programs I know of with good math programs assume you paid attention in high school, and already know basic calculus. First semester, you''ll do deeper calculus and second semester, multi-dimensional calculus. Then there''s another three years of undergraduate math. (linear algebra, combinatorics, numerical methods, statistics, algebra, etc)

THEN, when you go to masters or PhD level, you can start working on higher end math such as clifford algebra, applied tensor calculus, cryptography, etc. Does DeVry really teach this? I''d be amazed.


My opinion: learning computer languages and APIs will give you skills that are totally obsolete 10 years from now. Learning math will give you skills that are applicable until you die. Learning how to learn is the most important thing of all.

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I would look in to going to a four year university. From what I understand, Devry is more of a community college. Before you make a choice about colleges tho, look up the college''s rating for your field - don''t bother with U.S. News, for some reason they only like libral arts colleges. Most good CS dept. will require you to take at least thru Linear Algebra, and some dept. require a math minor. If you decide to go on to a masters/PhD degree, many CS depts. will have math applications courses that you can take instead of the general course in the Math dept.

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I am taking CIS. As for the math I mentioned that cal classes you can take if you want, not a must. On top of that not everyone took cal or physics in high school. I didn''t so those classes would be for me. I get what your saying but the point I tried to make is that you have many options.

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DeVry is a completely technical school. This means that it will teach you all sorts of different technologies, most of which are extremely useful now and which will be useless in 5-10 years.

Just be aware of that.

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playa_151, GameInstitute is NOT a waste of money. Try one course out. It''s much better than you''d expect. I mean, how often is that one of your teachers works at EA!!

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quote:

I mean, how often is that one of your teachers works at EA!!



I''ve not heard much about GameInstitute, or tried it, but from my own experiences (at DigiPen), just because somebody works or worked in the industry at a major company does not mean that they are particularly well suited to teaching others (sometimes they''re great, sometimes they''re completely terrible).

My advice would be to go to a four year school with a good computer science program. I think going that route will give you a solid foundation in CS you can apply to anything.

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quote:
Original post by Razorpro
playa_151, GameInstitute is NOT a waste of money. Try one course out. It''s much better than you''d expect. I mean, how often is that one of your teachers works at EA!!


Uh, I go to USC, and one of my teachers works for EA. Next question?


"Sneftel is correct, if rather vulgar." --Flarelocke

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i go to DeVry and im a CIS major. im not that happy so far with the teachers (see my post a page or 2 back) . there is only 2 required math classes to take, math 178 (college albebra) and math 221 (statistics). right now im in my second semester (last week of the semester). when the new semester starts ill start taking math 178.(when i started going here i started with math 090, now im in math 100, and in a few weeks ill be in 178.) I never got past basic algebra in high school. they also offer some calc classes and the highest math class they offer i think is discrete math or something like that, either that or calc 2. and yes you can take a physics class. if it helps make your decision, take a look at the employment statistics. its about 80% of graduates get employed making around 40k a year. not bad, and i can say personally im doing better then 20% of the the rest of my class-mates.

oh, and please dont think im stupid, i might have fucked up bad in high school, but im a fast learner, ive been working with computers for 10 years. ive only been programming for 3 and 1/2 months (when my first CIS class started) and ive already almost finished my first pong clone. the other people in my class started programming with me, and there just figuring out what an array is.


oh and playa, what campus you go to?




[edited by - graveyard filla on February 21, 2004 4:40:43 PM]

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DeVry is no longer a technical school. It is now a university. And I have tried a few online courses and didn''t like them. I said it is a waste of money because if you have a solid math and programming skill set then buying a book (heck you can buy the same ones they use in those online courses) and reading it yourself is just as effective. Plus I honestly don''t find those seminars and courses effective. That is just me. Just because some of them work in the industry that does not mean it is automatically going to be a great or effective learning experience. I know many people that work at a lot of different companies so I don''t find that to be impressive when it comes to online "institutes".

So I have tried it just to see what it was like and did not like it. Like jpetrie said if you go to a school with a good cs program then you''ll be fine. Personally I thought that DeVry''s program was more than enough. Unlike most people I have at least taken one step in a DeVry campus (well 2, one in NJ and one in GA because I moved) and answered the original question how I honestly thought of it.

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you still in the NJ campus? me too. whats with the game dev club? i think there getting closed down. i wanted to join but i think the club is DOA because of lack of membership. it sucks too, i was looking forward to going to those meetings and meeting people IN REAL LIFE who do game programming. oh well.

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quote:
Original post by Razorpro
How is Digipen is it very good?



It''s not bad, I like it for the most part.
The thing that I dislike the most is the game project classes, actually. These classes typically last a year and you work with a team of four to six other people making a game. That part is actually enjoyable; its the professors that teach the classes that I dislike (see my post above). There is very little real course material for them to teach in these classes (especially the professors who have no technical background), so you tend to get the same material thrown at you again and again. I think we''ve had a lecture on "time management techniques" AT LEAST three times, and twice by the very same professor.

I have heard mixed things from alumni about the worth of the schools degree though. Someone I talked to, who now works for Gas Powered Games, said that in his experience some companies will love you because you''re a DigiPen grad, and some companies will not even look twice at you because you''re a DigiPen grad.

YMMV, however; the best thing to do is check out all your options and go to the school that feels right for you.

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quote:
Original post by graveyard filla
....i go to DeVry and im a CIS major. im not that happy so far with the teachers (see my post a page or 2 back) . there is only 2 required math classes to take, math 178 (college albebra) and math 221 (statistics).....


Dont blame the fact that a CIS program is light on math on Devry. While I am not defending them, most colleges that offer both a CIS and CS degrees, often have lighter math requirements for the CIS program.

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Go to the best traditional university you can get into and afford. If you''re in california, look into the UC system, usc, stanford etc. If you''ve got a really good gpa, and high sat''s apply to mit no matter where you live. Hit up the Ivy leages, Carnegie Mellon etc. The better and more respected the university, the more money they have for their programs and to experiment with new classes, like game programming courses. If you cannot get into one of the better universities, look into your local state college.

Like some other posters have mentioned, try to avoid the one''s that mainly have classes like "C++", "Oracle 8" ,"Java", "Visual Basic" etc and aim for ones whose courses are "Intro to computer science", "Data Structures", "Compiler Theory", "Computer Architecture", "Operating System Theory" etc.
When you are done with one of these programs, you will be much better off, as you will be flexible and will understand how these beasts we call pc''s actually work. Right now I am taking a course in Compilers and have written a language that supports function calls, the usual looping mechanisms, conditional statements, performs type checking etc. It really helps me to understand what is going on when I am using a language like C++ or what ever. The graphics class I am taking teaches us how the graphics apis work under the hood, rather than how to use them ( although we get to do that too ). This is invaluable as now when I use opengl, there is no mysterey. I know exactly what code I need to write to get the result I want. I have to experiment a great deal less.

A good example of why to do this is Naught Dog Software (Crash Bandicoot, Jak and Daxter). They write the majority of their code in a proprietary language that has a somewhat functional nature. You probably wont even learn a functional paradigm language at a DeVry like school, and maybe not even learn what the heck a functional language is.

Trust us. Go to a traditional university.

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Those schools are only good schools if you are looking for a limited degree. You pretty much are guranteed to never learn anything advanced or complex, you won''t learn applications of anything beyond what applies in the business world, and you won''t move beyond anything in a place like that.

I attend DeVry myself and I graduate in a term with a CIS degree. I breezed through everything (graduate in term 8), yet find that there''s a lot here I had no clue about. Put it that way. Here''s what you won''t learn:
Data Structures (Trees and the like)
Database Theory (just as it applies to Oracle)
Programming Theory
Operating Systems (how the work, what goes on inside them)
Complex Math like Algorithms or anything

You''ll learn C/C++, Java, BASIC, PHP, ASP.net, HTML, javascript, but a lot of your time will be spent on Systems Analysis & Design, Databases, and Business. A lot of it has to do with your teachers, though. My campus has absolutely despicable Core tachers, but the Gen Ed teachers are fantastic.

Honestly, if you want a JOB and don''t care about the theory behind doing your job, then DeVry and ITT Tech are your spot. Same applies for all categories, but TCOM (Telecommunications) is a crap degree. Just thought I''d mention that.

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