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Alpha_ProgDes

Classic games ...... can we make game like that?

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What i mean is.... I was looking through some archives and looked at some NES games. The games had size of 256 and 384 KB or simllar sizes. I was wondering with today''s software (DX, OGL, Allegro, etc) can we still make games that small? if the showcase was open i''d look for myself. but in some case i see games that are not too compilicated that are 1 or 2 MB. i don''t know if that because of the SDKs we use, the hardware it''s implemented on, or just that we don''t use alot of assemlby in our game in any case, if someone wants to set me straight, please do.

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The average size for a modern cell-phone game is 300k-500k, so yes, people are still making games that small.

You probably could make a DX or OGL game that small. Looking briefly I see that opengl32.lib has a size of 75k, and d3dx8.lib has a size of 20k. (maybe there are other files that I''m not counting). But it looks like the code size of these libraries wouldn''t hold you back. The real bottleneck would be the resources- the images and sounds.

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Theres a couple reasons why old NES and that era of games were so small. First, The CPUs they used typically have a more dense instruction stream (operations are encoded as fewer bytes) so the executable code is smaller. Operations on an x86 range from 4 to 12 or so bytes(I am not 100% sure of numbers but the point remains), depending on the operation and addressing mode. The second, and more important thing is that graphics and audio were at a much lower bitdepth. An NES game used 4 (or 2?) bit paletized graphics, today almost all games use at least 16 bits. beyond that, with the lower resolution of the NES, smaller graphics were used, while using the same graphics on a PC monitor would just be to small. If you take a 16x16 NES graphic, it should come in at about 128 bytes, while a comparable modern day graphic is probably at least 2 kilobytes(32x32 16bit). audio is much the same, plus a higher emphesis on MIDI-type formats which are smaller yet. Now, all that said, theres no reason you couldn''t used palitized graphics at a low resolution and scale them or small MIDI files if you were dead-set on a small game.

Ravyne, NYN Interactive Entertainment
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quote:
Original post by pinacolada
The average size for a modern cell-phone game is 300k-500k, so yes, people are still making games that small.

You probably could make a DX or OGL game that small. Looking briefly I see that opengl32.lib has a size of 75k, and d3dx8.lib has a size of 20k. (maybe there are other files that I''m not counting). But it looks like the code size of these libraries wouldn''t hold you back. The real bottleneck would be the resources- the images and sounds.


Actually on most cell phone games we are limited to a total size of 64KB by the device...which means our code size ends up being ~ 20 kb!!

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quote:
Original post by psamty10
quote:
Original post by pinacolada
The average size for a modern cell-phone game is 300k-500k, so yes, people are still making games that small.

You probably could make a DX or OGL game that small. Looking briefly I see that opengl32.lib has a size of 75k, and d3dx8.lib has a size of 20k. (maybe there are other files that I''m not counting). But it looks like the code size of these libraries wouldn''t hold you back. The real bottleneck would be the resources- the images and sounds.


Actually on most cell phone games we are limited to a total size of 64KB by the device...which means our code size ends up being ~ 20 kb!!



Sounds like you are targetting the really primitive phones. The size limit for the games we publish is 300k, and we support a slew of phones (not just the high end ones).

And if you download a big game like LOTR, or Finding Nemo, or EQ: Hero''s call, I believe those games are around 500-600k.

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Well, early NES games were 8 kilobytes (!), due to carteridge size.

Many games on Nintendo carteridge systems are smaller than you think. Mario 64, for example, was 8 megabytes.

[edited by - PlayGGY on March 6, 2004 12:28:06 AM]

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Someone recently drew my attention to a GameDev Tutorial:

http://www.gamedev.net/columns/hardcore/tetris/

It''s 30 lines of code... 36kb compiled executable... (VC7)

I''d say, yes. It is possible to make games that size still. Even with Direct Draw.

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quote:
Original post by Slickfty2
Someone recently drew my attention to a GameDev Tutorial:

http://www.gamedev.net/columns/hardcore/tetris/

It's 30 lines of code... 36kb compiled executable... (VC7)

I'd say, yes. It is possible to make games that size still. Even with Direct Draw.


Not only that, but the code is incredibly clean and well written. You guys should check it out, and use it as an example of how to code.


[edited by - PlayGGY on March 6, 2004 12:40:05 AM]

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