Finding a job is a full-time job. I'm currently preparing to look for a job, and I've done a ridiculous amount of industry research along with taking a class or two on the subjects of interviews and resumes.
I think the one thing you'll have to realize is that presentation is everything. Assume, coming into the interview, that they aren't really interested in you and that you must sell them yourself. By doing this, you essentially empower yourself to take control of the situation. Ask questions, respond clearly in a very logical and sound manner, and never become flustered or make innane comments like "This is not my day." Also, remember that the truth isn't as important as the perception of the truth. You can make it look like you've done more than you really have by functionalizing (putting your skills and traits down along with experience just listed without dates) instead of using the traditional chronological format (job - date - what you did type of format).
Interview skills are pretty much paramount. You kind of have to sell yourself in whatever way possible. Here's what I plan to do for my interviews:
-Have a nice, well laid out portfolio including 3 - 4 copies of my resume on nice paper along with 3 - 4 copies of my cover letter. Include a business card inset in the portfolio somewhere. Include 5 reference sheets, each with 3 professional and 2 person references.
-Have a seperate programming portfolio with multiple screenshots / links to projects I've completed for customers and school.
-Have 3 letters of reccomendation from professors and business contacts.
-Have a thank-you letter written for each and every individual with whom you interview . Mail it immediately.
There are always other things you can do, but you have to really go above & beyond to get considered with the people who have 5 - 10 years experience. Also, do some research on the company itself. Really target it and find out what they actually do and where they're going.
Like, if I find a company is rearing to open a new clothing division and I want an IT job there, I might mention that skillset along with experience working in the retail industry would allow me to contribute heavily to the process of rolling out the new clothing division. Just something to perk interest is what you're looking for.
But really, the whole thing is a crapshoot, shot in the dark. No one can really tell you How to get a job. It's just being in the right place at the right time with the right tools.
[edit]
Oh yeah: Starting a business straight out of college is usually bad unless you know exactly what you're doing and you've been working on the idea for quite some time. You really have to be a unique individual with a strong understanding of the industry to be able to do that. Not saying no one can, but it's just a better idea to get some experience under your belt first. I always reccomend doing consulting work while you look for a job if possible. Things like setting up networks and stuff looks good on a resume if presented properly (like it was just a side job to stay afloat and current - DO NOT make it look like a business you intend to keep or they may not want you).
[/edit]
[edited by - ShadowWolf on April 9, 2004 2:05:11 PM]
Getting an entry level Programming Job
quote:Original post by Warpstorm
Not in the least. A person with average intelligence at best can get through college with decent grades if they work hard. I look for that somewhat quirky student who got good or excellent grades without having to work hard for them. The kind of person who learns new stuff so fast they have time to pursue other things than their school work. The kind who not only excelled at school work but at some outside activity that they have a passion for.
Okay, I'll add another thing to the list of things I look for:
5. Passion
I'll just say that I disagree. By my standards, smart isn't what you've learned so far (I'd call that education, knowledge, or maybe even wisdom in some cases). Odds are pretty good, it isn't exactly what I need today. To me, smart is how fast a person learns new things and how well they make use of what they've learned. If they happen to already know the stuff I need right now that is a nice bonus. (For the position I last interviewed someone for intimate knowledge of the ESRI mapping tools would have been a nice bonus).
I've hired enough programmers over the years and worked with even more (and interviewed an order of magnitude more) to say that some people are smarter than others. I prefer to try to find the geniuses (and they are out there).
But, hey, that's just me and what I look for when I interview someone. Your mileage may vary.
I guess I don't understand how you decide who is smart and who isn't in the short interviewing time you have to decide? What gives you the qualifications to make that decision? I've noticed how objectively employers view people and interviews. The fact of the matter is, when dealing with unique people, one must view them as a unique subject. There are so many things that contribute to your given calculation of a persons intelligence, most of which are behind the scenes and were not included in your filtering. For instance, you speak about how important it is for someone to have the ablitity to pursue extracirricular activities while in school. Well, some of us are full time students, fathers, husbands, and full time workers, all at the the same time in every moment. I don't have time to develop projects outside class requirement. But if I can do it for class, I have the ability to do it outside of class. What if you interviewed me and I was having a bad day?What if I was tired from no spleep for 2 days? In such a case, I would not be showing my highest potential. It just all seems so chaotic to me. Theres too much luck and chance involved. A system like that is not a just or fair one. To make it even more confusing, each employer wants something different. I remember when I first started looking for a job, i'd go to an interview and be one way with appearence, communication, and attitude and come away from the interviewthinking I had learned something. Only to find that when I would change for my next interview, the new employer probably wanted what I portrayed in the last interview. All this randomness that I have explained left me saying screw it, Im just gonna be me. I can't keep trying to please everyone. I have skills and abilities but Im finding out that's not what people really want. I have found all of this to be an immature popularity contest.
I have a question though, at what point does a person like yourself hire someone for an entry level position? The way I see an entry level position in terms of your interest, is an investment in the future. For instance, with me, you could have a clean slate. Usually in interviews I tell these employers "that I have the foundation to build on. Here I am, mold me. Make me into whatever you want." Someone with a general understanding but no actual on the job training is easier to train than someone whos worked somewhere else for 10 years. At least this is what I hear and it makes sense. Technology constantly changes and each project is different. Therefore most of programming is research and cracking the book open. The key is to just have the concept. And its not rocket science. I don't know what business your in, but this stuff isn't that hard. You are never going to find a programmer that automatically knows everything off the top of his head or know most of whats needed. Thats why its programming. You start with a clean table, you research, locate the pieces you need, lay them out on the table and begin piecing them together. I talk to alot of employers hiring who have no idea what it actually is they are hiring for. They honestly think they are looking for that one person who is going to magically whip up all the answers immediatly on demand. It doesnt exist.
Oh, and by the way, I am one of those 'quirky' students who don't study but get good grades and pass exams just from doing the assignments and going to class. Part of this has to do with what I was talking about above. I did the studying and real work in learning the concepts at the tech school I went to for my associates degree. The concept is down. The thread is already there. Everything else is just little pieces that I tack on along the way. Im nearing the end of the semester in the four year college I'm now attending with an A in my c++ class and have opened my book 1 time all semester. This stuff really isn't that hard once you grasp it. Why is it I don't have a job?
Kramer
[edited by - mjkramer21 on April 9, 2004 8:21:19 PM]
[edited by - mjkramer21 on April 9, 2004 8:37:48 PM]
[edited by - mjkramer21 on April 9, 2004 8:49:21 PM]
[edited by - mjkramer21 on April 9, 2004 8:54:59 PM]
[edited by - mjkramer21 on April 9, 2004 8:58:50 PM]
Why don''t you have a job? I don''t know. Like you said it could be bad luck, because it sounds like you might have passed my personal criteria.
FWIW, my first programming job took me almost a year to get. I lived in an area where there were a lot more CS grads than entry level positions and didn''t want to move. Eventually, I changed my mind and moved. My first game programming job (okay, my only game programming job) took me about 4 years to get (but I was working elsewhere).
You are correct. An entry level position is an investment (actually any level is) in the person. Like I said earlier, it is extremely unlikely that an entry level employee will have exactly the skills to do a given programming job without cracking the books (the same can be said for most mid- and senior-level employees). I would expect them to do just that.
As far as fast filtering giving bad results goes, yes, errors are made. Where I used to work, we had about 8 people interview each potential employee once we saw a candidate whose stuff caught our eye. It would take a full day. We would then decide which candidate to choose (there were always many more applicants than positions). Is it subjective? Of course it is. How did we decide? We decided on candidates based on our past experience with hiring and training new employees. Those of us doing it have each hired and trained people before. With a large group in on the decision very few poor fits get through (although I''d be lying if I said none ever did). Conversely, I''m sure that for one reason or another, we missed the diamond in the rough. What can I say? We are human. In some cases, we had to choose one out a handful of candidates each of whom would have been an good fit. That''s the hardest decision.
Good! Part of your frustration can''t be helped, though. Each organization has a certain ''culture'' and they are going to look for candidates who look like they will fit in. You probably wouldn''t be happy at a place where you had to act like someone else all the time. Once you are on a programming project, these people will be your life. You will spend more time with them than anyone else in your life. It is important that you can get along. I would hate having to spend 80 hours a week working beside someone I can''t stand.
I wish you luck.
FWIW, my first programming job took me almost a year to get. I lived in an area where there were a lot more CS grads than entry level positions and didn''t want to move. Eventually, I changed my mind and moved. My first game programming job (okay, my only game programming job) took me about 4 years to get (but I was working elsewhere).
You are correct. An entry level position is an investment (actually any level is) in the person. Like I said earlier, it is extremely unlikely that an entry level employee will have exactly the skills to do a given programming job without cracking the books (the same can be said for most mid- and senior-level employees). I would expect them to do just that.
As far as fast filtering giving bad results goes, yes, errors are made. Where I used to work, we had about 8 people interview each potential employee once we saw a candidate whose stuff caught our eye. It would take a full day. We would then decide which candidate to choose (there were always many more applicants than positions). Is it subjective? Of course it is. How did we decide? We decided on candidates based on our past experience with hiring and training new employees. Those of us doing it have each hired and trained people before. With a large group in on the decision very few poor fits get through (although I''d be lying if I said none ever did). Conversely, I''m sure that for one reason or another, we missed the diamond in the rough. What can I say? We are human. In some cases, we had to choose one out a handful of candidates each of whom would have been an good fit. That''s the hardest decision.
quote:
saying screw it, Im just gonna be me. I can''t keep trying to please everyone.
Good! Part of your frustration can''t be helped, though. Each organization has a certain ''culture'' and they are going to look for candidates who look like they will fit in. You probably wouldn''t be happy at a place where you had to act like someone else all the time. Once you are on a programming project, these people will be your life. You will spend more time with them than anyone else in your life. It is important that you can get along. I would hate having to spend 80 hours a week working beside someone I can''t stand.
I wish you luck.
quote:Original post by Lab-Rat
GameJobs.com looks very good, but I''m in the UK so I thought I''d check if GameJobs.co.uk existed.
Check Companies->Recruiters on Gama
ld
This topic is closed to new replies.
Advertisement
Popular Topics
Advertisement
