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Rpg game world toughts

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I''m trying to design an rpg like game. I''m not trying to make something easy or innovative. I''m gonna write about some ideas about the world the games develops around. I''m just looking for a really interesting world. It''s a world that has as much good as there evil; neither of them has managed to beat the other. Both are tought to be imposible to beat. The game''s world is supposed to have 7 main dimensions, and an extra dimension but the last one isn''t really in the scope of this post. The dimensions are supposed to move from evil to good, starting from 1 to 7. So 1 would be hell and 7 would be heaven. Hell could be tought as absolute imperfection, no one''s happiness; heaven is a place where absolutely everyone can lead a happy life. All the living beings are supposed to be able to die within the 2 - 6 dimensions. Early and horrible death is the one almost on one can escape from in the 2nd dimension and in the 6th, a pacefull death would be unfrecuent and tought as a blessing, because dieing beings in the 6th dimension should go to heaven, unless it''s a special case. Beings in the 4th dimension and lower have to earn they path to a higher dimension and die there to achieve heaven. A being that dies in the 3rd dimension or lower is supposed to go to hell, unless again, it''s an special case. Dimensions shouldn''t be like mirrors, like they are just opposite. Tought dimensions should be balanced. The good contained in the 5-7 dimensions together should be equal to the evil in the 1-3 dimensions together, but it doesn''t means the good in the 5th dimension equals the evil in the 3rd. So the world design is going to be based around these so called dimensions. The player is supposed to be eventually able to travel between them, and death does not means game over; it means your soul goes either to hell or heaven, tought because of the nature of the main character (which I plan to explain in a later post) won''t let his soul stay in neither of these places. Any toughts, ideas, comments, things you thing I got wrong, posible improvements for my model to design my world, or resemblances with previous games, movies, books, etc? Would you play an rpg game where this was the game world? why yes or why not?

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having your universe stratified that way seems less conducive to a heaven/hell dichotomy than to a more gradual process. Maybe your performance before death in a given dimension will cause you to be taken one dimension up or down, with dimensions one and seven representing the most extreme cases.

Build in a karma system, which would be required in any case, and offer a bonus for players who get to one extreme or the other. Say they get a super-power or special item of the appropriate alignment, and then are re-inserted into level 4, or maybe in to a level of their choice, so a demon could spawn into level 6, but he probably wouldn''t last too long there.

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I would suggest not trying this, or at least in this way.

I, personally, liked the Nordic universe. Basically, there were three "platforms," as I always thought of them, and each platform has three lands or countries or worlds in it or something like that. (If I''m wrong, correct me.) This was always interesting to me.

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So, basically, the average persons spirit would reside in the 4th dimension, the neutral plane. Each side (good/evil) is trying to conquer all 7 dimensions, which as you said has accomplished nothing for either side. Now depending on the dimension, the power of good/evil varies. So a good creature would be nearly powerless on plane #1, whereas an evil demon would have some power on plane #5, but would be unable to achieve its full potential. Now it doesn''t make sense to me that an evil spirit on plane #2 would be able to affect something on plane #5 (if they are layered, which is how I understand it)

With that in mind, we come to a simple fact. Each plane is only connected to the ones directly above or below it. Depending on a persons alignment, they become more removed from the 4th dimension. Ok, so the ''real world'' where people interact with one another is the merging of the 5 middle dimensions.

I can''t understand how you could travel to these different planes with this type of model. It seems like all but #1, and #7 are invisible to a normal person. They all merge together on the material plane, and which plane your soul is on affects your material life. However, it would be nearly impossible to determine what plane you were on (its like seeing your soul).

The only way the travelling makes sense to me is if you are talking about a physical manifestation of a spiritual world. So demons from hell dimension plane #1 travel to the spiritual plane #3 and since it is an evil plane, are able to influence the people who''s souls reside on that plane. Basically, the people dont exist on each of the planes, just their spiritual selves. I can picture a game where you are an angel or a demon and you travel to different planes to perform different tasks. (Like recruiting souls from the neutral plane, or encouraging people to perform certain deeds if they are already of your alignment). This doesnt seem to be what you are thinking, but its just an idea. I think it would be easier to comment on the world if you provided some more details on its importance to the gameplay itself.

I think this idea has a lot of potential. As for would I play an RPG with a world like this, well that depends on the RPG. I think the gameplay mechanics are a lot more important, but having a good consistent universe doesn''t hurt. Please post a few more details, as your idea seems rather interesting.


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quote:
Original post by Coz
orionx103 what''s the problem with trying it this way?



It seemed to me like the way you die and where you go depended on where you lived, and that made it kinda bleh to me. (Pardon my lack of a real word describing what I felt. That''s all I could think of.) I think having realms like this is just boring and I don''t see why this would be in a story. Personal opinion, I guess.

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Nah, it''s ok, that''s just the reason of why I posted about it :D I didn''t wrote much more because I didn''t wanted to make the post too long...

Heaven doesn''t really tries to completely eliminate evil, but to send it completely to the first dimension. So far they haven''t been able to wipe it out completely from the 2-6 dimensions, evil it''s sneaky. However from hell they do want to eliminate everything good but they lack power.

The reason of you dieing in one dimension and going to either hell or heaven it''s because entry to dimensions from 4-7 it''s protected by heaven. Beings from dimension 4-6 are supposed to go to heaven, because they are supposedly good. Tought sometimes an evil can go through protection, but of course it''s easier to break through just one protection that to break them all, and persons that break and are discovered are sent back. Those are the exceptions, if you aren''t supposed to be living in a higher dimension but you broke through you are supposed to go to heaven. There are less strong barriers in dimensions 2-3 made by hell beings, to prevent suffering weaklings to leave.

It''s more common to be pushed(pushed because it''s supposed that you definitly don''t want to go one dimension lower) into a dimension lower than yours than being rewarded(in heaven''s case) or to make a deal(in hell''s case) that gives you the ability to be able to move one dimension higher.

Every dimension are supposed to have their own problems. They all started the same, but the lower ones were more influenced by evil, and the higher ones more influenced by heaven. Random events happen, most big things that happened only affecting one dimension, so they evolved to have notable diferences in some aspects, but having little changes in most that make each dimension unique, but at the same time changes from evil and good, that are the most notable ones, were gradual.

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Oh, I forgot to say, you can lose the game as in game over but only through certain methods that are supposed to destroy your ''soul'', or certain types of death, but only in heaven or hell(tought to get killed in heaven should certainly be almost imposible).

You don''t have much to do in hell usually but to go through the world to go back to your dimension and resume whatever objective you were acomplishing. You may gain something out of it but mostly the price of death is to have to go through all this, tought if you go to heaven it''s not too time consuming or hard. I''m thinking about methods to avoid saving and then reseting when you die to avoid going through hell.

Also, no more comments about this?

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There is a major flaw with this entire good vs. evil conflict idea. The problem is that good CANNOT fight evil. It is not in the nature of good to fight. A totally pure good being (which is totally impossible, but let''s go on a limb here) will not even be able to defend itself properly because it wouldn''t be right. If evil fights good, it will most certainly and inevitably win. Neutral or slightly good beings can defend the greater good from evil, which is how the real world works. It''s not really ying-yang, not a true balance. There is overall less evil than good because otherwise evil would prevail.

Just my rant on the world. By the way, I WAS talking about real life; games CAN bend the rules a little, but too much results in a crappy game.

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Necromage, for shame! You''ve been listening to the wrong ideas of good and evil! Good loves to fight evil, because to destroy evil is to serve Justice. C.S. Lewis wrote a book called Perelandra, and in it a human gets into a fistfight with a demon, possibly Satan, though it''s not clear. He feels a feeling he''s never had before, and he describes it as pure, righteous hatred. Hatred that isn''t mitigated by the fear of harming a living thing, or by the risk of doing something wrong, but hatred of something that is and shouldn''t be. So he flips out and kicks the shit out of the demon, which is in the body of his dead colleague. It''s aneat scene, and my memory doesn''t do it justice here, but Lewis is pretty coherent about the whole thing.

So yeah, good will fight. Hippies won''t fight, and pacifists won''t fight, but that''s not because they''re good; that''s because they''re idiots. Violence is a means, and only ends can be good or evil.

This argument is not flawless, but I''m not interested in writing a thesis on it. So, for the sake of this argument assume that I''m talking about intentionality and justice, without collateral damage or any of the other convolusions that arise in the application of such ideas.

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quote:
Original post by NecroMage
There is a major flaw with this entire good vs. evil conflict idea. The problem is that good CANNOT fight evil. It is not in the nature of good to fight. A totally pure good being (which is totally impossible, but let''s go on a limb here) will not even be able to defend itself properly because it wouldn''t be right. If evil fights good, it will most certainly and inevitably win. Neutral or slightly good beings can defend the greater good from evil, which is how the real world works. It''s not really ying-yang, not a true balance. There is overall less evil than good because otherwise evil would prevail.

Just my rant on the world. By the way, I WAS talking about real life; games CAN bend the rules a little, but too much results in a crappy game.


Alright, since I TECHNICALLY didn''t necro this topic, I guess I''ll respond...

I don''t think that good would fight physically against evil...sorry Iron Chef, for once I don''t agree with you. Instead, I think that "Good" would try to influence the people between the levels of 2 and 6 so that they would be good, which would take potential "Evil" warriors away.

But...then again...that raises the question of who decides what people are promoted/demoted and when...which would make for a damned good end-game objective, IMO.

Imagine...spend the whole game finding out the real motives of levels 1 and 7 (Heaven and Hell), traversing all the different dimensions by your actions, only to be given the option of becoming more powerful than either side and ascending to an "8th Dimension" (echo effect) by defeating the being that decides the fate of everyone else (read: God).

Also, by "real motives", I meant to hint that each side planned to defeat the other to gain enough power to rise to power...and, although I have yet to play the game through, this idea''s inspired by what I''ve read about Xenogears (I''ve read that

**POSSIBLE COULD-BE MAYBE SPOILERS IF YOU KEEP READING AND STILL HAVEN''T PLAYED THE GAME BUT I''M NOT EVEN SURE BECAUSE I HAVEN''T BEATEN IT SO...WHATEVER**




it was about humans that met God and learned that he had turned his back on them, driving them to create big-ass fighting machines to defeat him and by training people to control them [Fei]...but correct me if I''m wrong).

But, you know...that sorta would blow the idea above away (non-violent approach by "Good"), because controlling the life-death process is borderline evil...so...yeah.

Sorry if any part of this was incomprehensible, my ability to express ideas is pretty limited ATM.

L8r



"TV IS bad Meatwad...but we f***in need it"

If you''re a girl under the age of 12, and you''re high on marijuana...don''t ride your bike. -TRUTH

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why couldn''t good fight evil? is the entire purpose of good to fight evil?

in the christian mythology, for example, god has angels that kick evil''s ass. god kicked satan''s ass and sent him to hell. when the world ends, jesus will come back and kick everyone''s ass.

as someone said earlier, good does not mean hippy.

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Not every saint is a martyr. Maybe you could require good players to reach level 7 and get a flaming sword of justice before they can fight, so that people born in lower realms have to pray for deliverance. You get to level 7, and you get your wings, your harp, and your sword of light, and then you get to return to one of the lower striations as a defender of the faithful. An angel would be worth a hundred demons and a thousand mere mortals, but they''d have to contend with underhanded tactics and treachery, besides not really ever being fast enough to be everywhere at once.

It would be like being Superman. He can hear every plane that''s in trouble, he learns about every earthquake and bombing, but what happens when there''s a passenger plane going down with 300 people on it near New Delhi and another one with 250 people on it crashing in Quebec? He has to decide.

Now I''m off on a total tangent. Nevermind.

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Okay, time to explain something else.

The main character is supposed to have blood from a race derived from humans(they are supposed to be weak but it was used for the looks mainly) and beasts(just think about something like a demonical ape, it's a type of beast I created, not even named it yet), that was basicly evil, and was created in hell as the ultimate weapon to defeat heaven, but being as evil as it is it couldn't be controlled, and after joining forces(the only time they have) evil and good and many races together tought they had destroyed it all, but there are human beings that have blood from the evil race.

The main character has a lot of that blood from the evil race, compared to the other ones that have that blood, about 1/4 of his genes come from it. But the main character was raised in a somewhat happy and pacific enviroment. He is supposed to start the game as an late teen and in the end he is a young adult. He's almost naive and coward at first.

Hell wants to get him on his side to gain an advantage, but the main character refuses to act totally evil, tought he does consider the offer. Heaven doesn't wants him because of the blood he carries, but the main character does so many good things it would be unfair to refuse his entry to heaven, but heaven still wants to prevent hell to convince him to go to the evil's side.

And the player isn't supposed to become strong enough to beat evil or good totally. He might be able to fight the strongest of both, and if he's the strongest he can get in the game and has a lot of luck he might be able to win a battle ocasionally but not the war.

I'm planning to let the player to act as a superman and save many people and tought I'm thinking about allowing the posibility of saving them all but I want to make it extremely hard.

And also, I don't want to make the game's objective to save the world or beat evil. The main character hates the evilness inside him because it risks his loved ones and wants to get rid of it so he is looking for someone who can help him. Actually that's only part of it, but the premise is always that he wants to keep his loved ones from harm, not like he's a real goodie goodie that has to help everyone.

*Also, if you find a typo please spare me, my input hardware(keyboard) is messy :S and that doesn't means that if I found a typo I didn't fixed it, I looked for them but I don't know if I missed any.

[edited by - Coz on April 1, 2004 8:26:40 AM]

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Okay... first off... if you can''t spell words correctly, and you can''t construct a grammatically correct sentence, then don''t post anything in a forum.

Secondly, I don''t see why you would want to do this, let alone what purpose it would serve or why it would be interesting.

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Okay... first off... if you can''t spell words correctly, and you can''t construct a grammatically correct sentence, then don''t post anything in a forum.

while worrying about being a grammar nazi, you forgot to check if the poster''s native language was english, and ended up looking like a jackass because of it. good thing you posted as an AC (anonymous coward).

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