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Cipher3D

elements of a final fantasy clone

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can anybody list their opinion of what they think are good final fantasy elements, and bad final fantasy elements. Note that I italicized opinion, so, do not rebuke each other for differing opinions =). i''m thinking of what elements i want to include in my RPG design, but I want to avoid at all costs a cut-and-dry FF3 clone.

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By FF3 do you mean FF3 or FF6(aka FF3 in the US).
One of my favorite FF elements was the job system seen if 3,5 and tactics. You choose the characters job, and they acquire exp and Job Points in battle. The characters job determines what bonuses they get at level, and when JP reaches certain levels you acquire a new skill.

The item skill system of FF9 was good. Basicllay the items your equiped with have skills and abilites that they teach you, when you aquire enough Item Points.

The Materia system would also good.

-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

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I hated the item skill system. It doesn''t make any sense at all, except maybe for magical spells. You get an item that casts a spell, and after using your Third Eye to watch it weave the energies for the spell a dozen, or a hundred, or a thousand times (depending on the spell''s complexity) you learn how to do it yourself. For things like "counterattack", forget it. I don''t need a hat to teach me how to hit a guy back.

FF6 had a very good storytelling system, at least in the second half. The ability to go on side-quests and learn about the characters and the world was a great feature, because it provided rewards to the player, as well as to the characters.

The job class system was good, but not great. I''d rather see a game where you can "train as" something instead of "becoming" it. Why is it that when my supermonk puts on a white mage''s robe he forgets how to take a punch? A level eight ninja becomes slow and clumsy just because he''s dressed as a summoner. It''s silly. You can divide skills, and even equipment into classes, but don''t make characters "lock into" one. But I really liked being able to specialize my characters, and maxxing out the various jobs and skills adds replay value for the hardcore gamer.

I''ve never really been a huge fan of the FF combat systems, even though tthey''re pretty much the standard. Something more like Star Ocean or Final Fantasy Tactics or any of the other systems that allow characters to use distance and cooperation in a more fluid way would be preferable to me. With the FF systems you generally just stand toe-to-toe with the bad guys and exchange blows, which is a little too much like rolling dice around a table for me.

I dislike linearity, which most FF games have in spades. FF6 broke it up a little in that second half, and that was nice, but the other games generally just leave you one way to go.

I like the ability to "swap out" party member, although FFX''s system of doing it mid-battle was a little weird. If they were standing right there, why weren''t they throwing bricks or something?

Splitting the party up so you can go through a dungeon in more than one way is alse nice. FF6 did this in a few places, and did it well. Later games used it, but less elegantly.

An overworld map is a good thing. FFX got rid of it, and that sucked. Definitely use an overworld map, even if it''s just like the one in FFT, with locations connected by little dotted lines.

Be careful about random enemy encounters. I''d rather see three pretty tough fights on my way through a forest than endure fifty skirmishes with rats or bugs. Watching the little intro animation and then watching my guys dance after the fact often took more time than the actual battle, and after about a dozen such fights I''m not interested in any more poisonous beetles.

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i think random encounters are ridiculous, but some people justify them as a good way to level up...why not just actually place the enemies where you can see them (instead of just encountering a spot on a flour and this big huge wolf comes out of nowhere).

yes, i am definitely thinking about a overworld map. no sense in creating one huge map =).

Also, for a battle system, i''m going to incorporate some strategy elements in it, aka a radius based system where melee fighters are more heavy armored, but they stick close to their enemies, while your ranged characters are on the outskirts, attacking from afar. The player can move characters about to eitehr get them out of harms way or to place them in a more strategic point. I haven''t perfected this yet, just an idea.

I really don''t like FF battle system that much, I was going for a chrono trigger style approach - it doesn''t zoom in this different background, it just stays in the same world setting but in battle mode. This complements my strategy approach above.

haven''t come up with a good skill system yet...

thanks for all the replies!

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walking in a 4-tile "circle" to kill orges repeatedly (for about two hours), so you don''t die in the dark elf''s dungeon.

oh, and METEO!


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I remember doing that, back when I was playing Final Fantasy on my nintendo.

-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Favorite fantasy element: half-naked sword-fighting chicks!

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quote:
Original post by Cipher3D
what is you guys'' take on charge meters?


As in the active time system? I don''t like it. Give me turn-based-affected-by-character-speed system of FFX and Tactics.

I like it when the characters have distinct skills. 7 and 8 were awful about that. Every character played the same because they could all be taught the same skills. FFX was pretty good about that until later in the game when the sphere grid opened up.

I don''t like how magic and special skills often become unnecessary in the end-game. If your regular hit is doing 9,999, why should you bother using magic?

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The crack about the ogres in FF is a good one. Make sure there''s no point where you can''t do anything until you raise fifteen levels. That was the worst game-balancing error in the history of RPGs. The worst part of that is that you''re also trying to save up the 4000 GP you need for the damn silver sword (or two if your party has two swordsmen, but I always went with the Black Belt, since he''s so economical, and at the end he punches harder than the masamune), and there are asps everywhere that poison you, so you''re burning funds on antidotes, which you can only buy one at a time, and the ogres are tough, but not worth much money or experience, and damn, that game pissed me off so badly.

I thought "charge meters" was referring to things like limit breaks, or the various incarnations of that idea in the FF games. I think it''s a difficult thing to justify. The "Trance" system in FFIX sucked, because you''d just trance out at the end of a battle against slime mold and then your meter is empty at the boss fight. But the system in FFX, where you could use the special skills at will after the meter fills convolutes the explanation for what it is. I can get super pissed in a fight, so I can unlock my killer move, but then I can just hold on to that rage for a few days until I meet an enemy worthy of it? Nah.

I have a complex suggestion that is mostly predicated on different ideas from a variety of systems. In FF6, when your HP got very low, you would randomly do a super-move just using the "attack" command. In FFIX, when Zidane went into "Trance" mode, his various thieving skills turned into "Dyne" skills, and so every time he learned a new thief skill, he''d unlock a new Dyne skill as well. In Secret of Mana, when you got your magic levels past level 8, you could boost them as high as 8:99 (there was no level 9), and the closer you got, the better your chances of invoking the super version of the spell, which was considerably more powerful, and prettier besides. Bear all these systems in mind while I tell you what I think would be a great new kind of charge meter system.

Have each character learn a number of different attacks or special moves. Either straight attacks with different properties (penetrating attacks, poisoning attacks, mugging, etc) or a variety of different special moves (healing, buffing, hiding, etc.), so that the player can choose from a number of "core" moves each turn (no MP cost, just special moves intrinsic to the character). Then, make a "powered up" version of each ("one-inch punch" for "punch", "loot" for "steal", "riposte" for "guard", etc.) and have the super-version become more probable as their HP dwindles. If you have over 50% HP, you''ll never see these super moves, but as you get more and more beat up, you''ll use them more and more frequently.

This way, the player gets to choose which kind of move he wants to use, his "hidden rage" is justified by HP loss, and the moves are acquired (or maybe even levelled up) through the course of the game. That''s the sort of thing I''d like to see.

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