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Hi i just started programming in C++ and i cant say i no mutch beside writing console "hello world" programms. but i have quite a history with 3D design using 3d studio max and 3d game studio, i have Microsoft visual C++ 6.0. but Im still in highschool and dont have any money for all the glossie stuff. i have sevral very long tutorials on C++ programing but so far i havent had mutch luck past the "hello world" stage. (The tutorals are way to fast and expect you to no quite a bit about c++ alredy). What i would like to no though is where do i lern real beginner stuff without spending craploads of money. any advice on anything would be great, also any programs you recomend(prefubly free or open source). thanx

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well, a good linux distribution has everything you need. Really: compiler, automated programming environemnt, debugger, version control systems, dozens of text editors (take your pick), free libraries for everything, and heck, even a free operating system!

For windows, you might try Dev-C++ from Bloodshed Software. That''s the GNU C Compiler (gcc) ported to windows and wrapped with an IDE.

You can even get free C++ books:
http://mindview.net/Books/

/\ All free. All open source. Good place to start.



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C++ is not a beginner language. You''re free to subject yourself to pain, though.

Linux is not a beginner platform. Please, people, stop suggesting it.

I''d recommend you get a grasp on programming, and this free online text, How to Think Like a Computer Scientist [Python version, Java version], is just what you need.

Once you''re comfortable, making the transition to C++ will be a lot easier and more productive.

You''re, of course, free to subject yourself to pain, though.

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i dont know why so many people say not to learn c++ as a beginner language. i first started learning programming with c++ and people here told me to stop and learn something easier. well, thats crap because i never really hit a "brick wall" with c++, or maybe im yet to hit it? i say try and stick with it and if its absolutly horrible then switch to another language. ive still only been programming since november but my second game with graphics is 99.999% complete, although i feel like that percentage gets smaller because i keep wanting to add more things to it.

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quote:
Original post by DeathKnight187
Thanx ill do that i didnt no that C++ was a realy complicated language, i lernt a bit of basic but i was told by game developments sites that C++ was the language to lern strat up.
thanx


C++ isn''t bad; you can start with it just fine.

<-- that''s still a link if you didn''t notice
"Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall." - Grizwald

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Yeah, ive started with it and its fine, nothing is really hard compared to other languanges, the only problems ive had was understanding pointers and classes for few days. Everything else went fine.

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quote:
Original post by graveyard filla
i dont know why so many people say not to learn c++ as a beginner language. i first started learning programming with c++ and people here told me to stop and learn something easier. well, thats crap because i never really hit a "brick wall" with c++, or maybe im yet to hit it?
You wouldn''t know, but I, who have to read and respond to your posts in this very forum, would.

You''re in no position to give advice to a complete beginner.

@DeathKnight187:
C++ is the current de facto standard for game programming, but that doesn''t mean it has to be the first language you learn. Learn an easier language as a means of gaining the fundamental skills necessary for programming, then learn C++. You can do a truckload using Python and PyGame, for instance, so when you come to C++ you''re not simultaneously struggling with a large, complex language and the objective of writing a meaningful game.

Oh, and C++ may not be the de facto programming standard of the future. It''s just another tool, so don''t get overattached.

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Yeah, careful of C++ snobbery. Although most commerical games use that now, there was a time where there was C snobbery towards C++. There is no reason why you can''t make games in other languages. C++ is so flexible that it permits you to make working code that is very poorly designed.

Other languages such as C# and Java take away some of that flexibility to try and force you to think in a more disiplined way.

If you want to start off in C++, then you have to arm yourself with some proper decent literature - get hold of a univesity reading list for the first year of a degree. You say you don''t want to spend crap loads of money, that''s what libraries are for - that''s what people used to use before the Internet to get their info fix ;-)

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"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- by President John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)

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quote:
Original post by Ekim_Gram
Also...I''m guessing you pirated VC++6 cause if you knew the cost of it, you wouldn''t be saying you hate to spend ''craploads'' of money to learn this.

A lot of people have access to these programs because their parents own them. Which would be a good reason why they''re interested in programming to begin with, since their parents are too. Why don''t we give people the benefit of the doubt a bit more often, instead of always being eager to place blame?

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quote:
Original post by DeathKnight187
Thanx ill do that i didnt no that C++ was a realy complicated language, i lernt a bit of basic but i was told by game developments sites that C++ was the language to lern strat up.



How about "lerning" English first?




[ CodeDread ]

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I don''t really see how people can say start right off on C++. Me I started with Visual Basic 5. Then moved on to VB 6. However, I decided I wanted more control over my programs so I tried C++ and got confused so I stepped back. I then started to learn Java 2 and got comfortable and dropped it like a rock becuase I was a horrible language. Then C# came out. What a heaven send this was. I learned C# and got a nice foot hold on it. And once again I started learning C++ with the book C++ Primer Plus Second Edition by Steven Prata. Bam after C# C++ click and is quite easy. Once I got a hold on how pointers work I am just flying through the rest as it is almost identical to the basic format of C#. They wern''t kidding when they said that C# was a non pointer dangerous C++. However, I had a long transition and it took me a while to find my path to understand how C++ does things. Over all though I fell in love with the C style langs and will take it over vb anyday.

So what should you get out of all that. Don''t try someone elses path to learn a language with the complexity of C++ find your own and you will enjoy it and understand it much better.

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Hey DeathKnight,
Beware what you get out of forums, as they indeed informative they are also loaded with users personal preferance. I''m sure a good few of them started off with another language other than C++ and are having difficulties with changing their way of thinking. I used to be a wiz with QBASIC, then took a wack at C and got my teeth kicked in.
As a beginner of C++ you probably will overcome most of the "relearning" challenges that most of us had to face quickly. (This is assuming that C/C++ is the first language you have used so far.)
There is no real beginners language, each language has its pros and cons, depending on the end product. As a suggestion I would recommend you pick up a copy of "SAMS teach yourself c++ in 21 days" and "C Primer Plus".
The 21 day book is lame to so/so, but it does teach good programming practices and give food for thought. The C Primer book is for when you are ready to quit fooling around and do something with your knowledge (to a less than desirable point).
Also a word of advice! Be aware that many a C++ program could be written with less memory usage by writing it in C! Even I forget this rule and use pointless resources.
Good luck!
Cheawick.

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C++ is a hairy b!tch of a mother convulted language. It takes a long time to master because there are so many ways you can express your design in it, and most of them are bad but there''s a few that aren''t. You can go straight OOP, straight precedural, mix and match, throw in generics into the mix and a thousand little rules and gotchas that are sure to trip you up. Only with a firm grasp of programming concepts does it start making sense in a twisted kinda way, and with (extensive) experience, one knows how to solve a problem with a most flexible solution. C++ is not for the faint of heart or haX0r kiddies that read some slipshod tutorial on Ahmed''s Crazy Programming 101 website. Those people tend to ask the most inanane questions that are addressed in introductory texts, but are too lazy to look up anything up.
I suggest you pick up some beginner flavor of the year language that will teach you basic principles. Try some Basic-derivative or maybe Python, I''ve heard some good things about it here. And no, you can''t jump into C++ after 2 weeks (or even 2 months) of practice and expect to understand what''s going on.

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Whether you should start with C++ depends on how good of a learner you take yourself to be. Personally, I don't find C++ that hard; it didn't take me more than a week to get down the basics--variables, functions, input, output, classes, etc. Due to the fact that I didn't get a good book, however, it took me another month or so to even look at polymorphism and it's uses.

Based on your post I would say that you might want to try a slightly easier language, such as any of the "basic" languages.

[edited by - bytecoder on April 7, 2004 12:24:47 PM]

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I agree with cheawick. C++ is a difficult language to learn. But it is far from impossible. I also started with Sams Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days. It starts slow and explains the how and why, and breaks it up so you arn''t using advanced code. The other advantage is that it slowly introduces pointers, unlike other books which hit you with a brick (or ignore it alltogether). Another book I would recommend is Deitel and Deitel C++ how to program, 4th edition. It is bigger, but has far more information, and thus makes it a good reference book.

As far as software goes, if you are still in high school, you may still qualify for an academic discount on expensive software. It generally can be from 50 to 75 percent off, but your not allowed to publish items commercially.

As far as basic goes, it is an ok language, but it allows you to be lazy and sloppy in your programming style. It is good for gaining the concepts, it is good, but be sure to add "option explicit" to the top of your programs.



No matter how hard you try, there is always somebody better.

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The best way to learn C++ is to program in it, not take a detour through other languages. What ever you practice you becomed skilled at, don''t go looking for an easier route, hit the bullet on the head.

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