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Ketchaval

RPG as game not 'story'

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I reckon it''d be cool to see an (action?) ''RPG'' which didn''t care about making a realistic world, instead making a surreal place like old arcade games such as Tapper, . They wouldn''t be focussed on story, or even character development but on (combat/puzzle) based *gameplay*. It would provide lots of different set pieces to challenge a variety of skills and bring out new tactics. Each challenge would earn you new powers.

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This is not a role playing game; a role playing game is where a player takes on a role within the world created and sets out to accomplish a task. The story is an integral part of the game, as is character development. This is why games such as Diablo are not considered RPGs; there is no character development, even though there is a story and there is level advancement. There is no development of the characters personality or style aside from developing more super-powers.

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Denying Diablo the title "roleplaying game" is bold - after all it is one of the games that is considered to have re-vitalized the genre.

But I agree, the discription sounds like an arcade game. Maybe you can be a little bit clearer wha you mean by "gameplay". A game that focuses on combat alone is either an action or a strategy game, depending on the player's role. Is that what you are suggesting for RPGs?


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There are only 10 kinds of people: those that understand binary and those that don't.

Bad Entertainment

[edited by - grbrg on April 16, 2004 10:02:04 AM]

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quote:
Original post by grbrg
A game that focuses on combat alone is either an action or a strategy game,





Sort of I''m thinking of different challenges such as defend the fast-food restaurant from aliens with only 5 potions and a few spells. Or quick-fire timed challenges, such as save the Princess from drowning. Various weird challenges such as pushing boulders onto enemies, or smashing a car up Street Fighter 2-stylee.

Anything to get away from the "you must save the world in a long 40hr plus quest." while picking up lots of weapons that you need to sell to get the money to buy slightly better sword / equipment.

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quote:
Original post by Ketchaval
Sort of I''m thinking of different challenges such as defend the fast-food restaurant from aliens with only 5 potions and a few spells. Or quick-fire timed challenges, such as save the Princess from drowning. Various weird challenges such as pushing boulders onto enemies, or smashing a car up Street Fighter 2-stylee.

Anything to get away from the "you must save the world in a long 40hr plus quest." while picking up lots of weapons that you need to sell to get the money to buy slightly better sword / equipment.

If I remember correctly Superheroes of Hoboken did something like that. It basically was a roleplaying game with a weird setting. Is that what you have in mind?

I guess fantasy settings are a bit over-used right now. Maybe a fresh setting would benefit the genre and even lure more casual gamers to play an RPG. On the other side, maybe there is a reason why the genre relies on serious fantasy and neglects other settings. I''d love to have a good sci/fi RPG again, though... :D


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There are only 10 kinds of people: those that understand binary and those that don''t.

Bad Entertainment

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Guest Anonymous Poster
How about a super fast RPG, that compresses a whole plot into 5 minutes (like the 5 Minute Shakespeare company).

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quote:
Original post by grbrg
Denying Diablo the title "roleplaying game" is bold - after all it is one of the games that is considered to have re-vitalized the genre.

But I agree, the discription sounds like an arcade game. Maybe you can be a little bit clearer wha you mean by "gameplay". A game that focuses on combat alone is either an action or a strategy game, depending on the player''s role. Is that what you are suggesting for RPGs?


------------------------------
There are only 10 kinds of people: those that understand binary and those that don''t.

Bad Entertainment

[edited by - grbrg on April 16, 2004 10:02:04 AM]



If you want to talk about revitalizing the Genre I think games along the lines of Planescape Torment and Baldurs Gate did far more to bring RPGs back to the PC. Even Nox had more RPG elements than Diablo.. Diablo was pure hack and slash, the classes identified in the game were more of a selection of combat style than selecting an actual role.

The concept of a role playing game is taking on an actor within a story, everything else is just filler. Most adventure style games are RPGs (think police quest or kings quest) but a hack and slash game stuck in a fantastic setting is not an RPG.

Consider the difference between the classic games Eye of The Beholder and Dungeon Hack. I seriously doubt that, when comparing the two, Dungeon Hack could be called an RPG.

In summary, I don''t think it is terribly bold, simply a more accurate distinction.

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quote:
Original post by Ketchaval
quote:
Original post by grbrg
A game that focuses on combat alone is either an action or a strategy game,





Sort of I''m thinking of different challenges such as defend the fast-food restaurant from aliens with only 5 potions and a few spells. Or quick-fire timed challenges, such as save the Princess from drowning. Various weird challenges such as pushing boulders onto enemies, or smashing a car up Street Fighter 2-stylee.

Anything to get away from the "you must save the world in a long 40hr plus quest." while picking up lots of weapons that you need to sell to get the money to buy slightly better sword / equipment.



The types of puzzle games or problem solving games you are proposing fall into the category of platformers more than anything, although it is possible for a platformer to have RPG elements.

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Most people have no idea what it means to "play a role".

People associate a "role playing game" with leveling up, dungeons, a strong plot, etc.

The truth is, the role playing genre was created by D&D, but the "playing of roles" revolves around characters class (or at the very least a character with unique features and the way that those unique traits affect te gameplay.

In D&D, you have to take into account your race/class and the specific abilities, strengths, and weaknesses that are inherent to those characters. Thus, you play the game (gameplay) with those in mind.

A fighter will not be likely to use a bow and arrow, just as an archer is not likely to use a melee weapon. Part of gameplay is choosing your weapons AND the combat itself, and those elements are both heavily dependent on what your character''s role is in the game - warrior, archer, wizard, etc. as well as orc, human, etc.

It also doesn''t help that many developers have marketing departments who don''t realize that the term RPG means.

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quote:
Original post by dgaf
Most people have no idea what it means to "play a role".

People associate a "role playing game" with leveling up, dungeons, a strong plot, etc.

The truth is, the role playing genre was created by D&D, but the "playing of roles" revolves around characters class (or at the very least a character with unique features and the way that those unique traits affect te gameplay.

In D&D, you have to take into account your race/class and the specific abilities, strengths, and weaknesses that are inherent to those characters. Thus, you play the game (gameplay) with those in mind.

A fighter will not be likely to use a bow and arrow, just as an archer is not likely to use a melee weapon. Part of gameplay is choosing your weapons AND the combat itself, and those elements are both heavily dependent on what your character''s role is in the game - warrior, archer, wizard, etc. as well as orc, human, etc.

It also doesn''t help that many developers have marketing departments who don''t realize that the term RPG means.


Just because a game is billed as an RPG or people consider it an RPG doesn''t make it such. Using the arbitrary distinction of character classes can relate to selecting different types of aircraft in a wargame. Different vehicles = different capabilities, but it is not an RPG.

People who are playing RPGs expect to take on roles within a game; if a story can''t carry an RPG then RPG players won''t stick with it. This is the main flaw in MMORPGs; most of them are action games with thinly veiled story elements. It is getting better, but not quickly enough.

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