RPG as game not 'story'

Started by
34 comments, last by Ketchaval 19 years, 12 months ago
quote:Original post by dgaf
But that area of the game in FF7 is scripted.

That element in FF7 is more of a "valley before a combat-peak" than anything else. In fact, I believe it was implemented solely for "comedic value" than any intended role-playing


Please quit concentrating on this one aspect. I''m talking about all features like these in games that aren''t Diablo or Diablo clones.

Although Diablo has a storyline, you must admit it''s much less deep and less involving than games such as FF.

Also, the RPGs I like to play aren''t the ones where you just "click the monster to go kill it"; I like turn-based (such as FF) or freestyle types of combat much more. I really like freestyle combat as it is least restricting.

I will not argue what is and what isn''t an RPG anymore, you just need to find out what types of games you enjoy and play them--whatever genre they may fall in should not matter as long as you enjoy the game.

Advertisement
quote:Original post by grbrg
Denying Diablo the title "roleplaying game" is bold - after all it is one of the games that is considered to have re-vitalized the genre.

But I agree, the discription sounds like an arcade game. Maybe you can be a little bit clearer wha you mean by "gameplay". A game that focuses on combat alone is either an action or a strategy game, depending on the player''s role. Is that what you are suggesting for RPGs?


------------------------------
There are only 10 kinds of people: those that understand binary and those that don''t.

Bad Entertainment

[edited by - grbrg on April 16, 2004 10:02:04 AM]


Heh, I think it is even MORE bold to say diablo IS an RPG. Especially considering the developer''s themself don''t consider it to be an rpg. From the interviews I''ve read, they even seem to take offense when people call it an RPG. They consider it a genre of its own. Do some research before making such bold statements.

Matthew Overstreet
Divinus EntertainmentLand of Relics Art Directorhttp://divinus.net
quote:Original post by Matto154
Heh, I think it is even MORE bold to say diablo IS an RPG. Especially considering the developer''s themself don''t consider it to be an rpg. From the interviews I''ve read, they even seem to take offense when people call it an RPG. They consider it a genre of its own. Do some research before making such bold statements.
Blizzard likes to invent new names for genre. As you mentioned they tried to give Daiblo a new genre and they did it with WarCraft 3. But the developer''s wish to make his game special does not change the fact that most reviewers and most likely the majority of the players consider it an RPG. What else would you call it? It has action elements, of course, but the game relies on levelling up a character and collecting items - what else would you call that?

quote:What I was suggesting is that RPG plots are often pompous and overblown, and filled with cardboard cut out characters. The plots tend to be cliche. And the combat / abilities based gameplay can be DULL !
Maybe it''s easier to sympathize with a epic story - after all it''s obvious the world should be saved! With smaller-scale stories it''s much more difficult to let the player immerse in the motivations of the characters. If the ultimate goal is to buy your grandmother a new chicken, then people may not be motivated enough. Giving the player a goal he really treasures is difficult...

If you want to bring in more "fun" aspects, then you''re maybe shifting the target audience. It''s a thin line, but it would be interesting to see the result.


------------------------------
There are only 10 kinds of people: those that understand binary and those that don''t.

Bad Entertainment

------------------------------

There are only 10 kinds of people: those that understand binary and those that don't.

straight from the Blizzard Diablo 2 Press Release:

IRVINE, Calif. - June 28, 2000 - Blizzard Entertainment® announced today that Diablo™ II, its highly anticipated real-time action role-playing game, has started shipping to stores worldwide. The game, which has initial orders of 2 million copies, will start arriving at retailers by the end of the week.

continued....

When Diablo released in 1997, it was an instant hit among gamers and debuted as the number-one selling game its first month in stores. The game has sold 2 million copies worldwide and was the number-one selling computer role-playing game in 1997.

action RPG. RPG in real-time.
______________________________________________The title of "Maxis Game Designer" is an oxymoron.Electronic Arts: High Production Values, Low Content Values.EA makes high-definition crap.
Since the Diablo series being an rgp or not is always a good start for a flamewar, I thought that I''d jump in with my can of kerosene...

No, really I just want to toss in a few thoughts I have on this subject.

Without trying to go too deep into the categorization of games (I tend to use the word category quite a lot here instead of genre, but to me it''s quite the same in this sense), I just want to say that it is pretty much messed up, that is, in my opinion.

In every game that is not completely probabilistic, you need some strategy. In every game the player plays some role (even in tetris; the game world in tetris might be abstract, but the player does act as the force that controls those two-dimensional blocks, ie. he plays the role of the force, so to speak; of course, this definition will set the whole forum on fire with all the flames ). Every game simulates some world, abstract or otherwise.

Still not all games are called strategy games. Not all games are called role-playing games. Not all games are called simulations. You get the picture.

However, the point isn''t really that categorizing games is futile. The problem is that everyone has his own categories. And besides, so what if someone calls Diablo an rpg? It isn''t a problem by itself. Games aren''t really made to fit in some rigid category, categories are made to group games! To make it easier to refer to groups of games. Besides I call Diablo a graphical roguelike, but then it reduces to the question whether roguelikes are a subgenre of rpgs or not. To my knowledge, original Diablo was really based on Moria, a roguelike game.

Also, if a lot of people disagree with a way of categorizing games, then that particular categorization is somewhat worthless. If half the people says that Diablo is an rpg and the other half disagrees, it''s not a problem with Diablo or the people. It''s a problem with the categorization.

And do keep in mind that such categories are fuzzy, in a way that some game can be a bit of an rpg; it''s not that a game either is or isn''t. This thread alone shows that there is no clear "definition" or rpgs (or any other genre for that matter).

And another thing: stories in games. While I do enjoy playing a game with a good story, the story in a way makes it less interactive. What I mean is, just as the story in traditional pnp roleplaying takes place in the imaginations of the players why can''t this happen in a computer game? I mean, traditional pnp is much closer to writing/telling a story than reading it. A computer game could do the same: it will provide a stimulant for the mind, but not really tell the story. If I wanted to read/see a good story, I could read a book, watch a movie etc. If I want to tell a story (without having to make up the environment, its history etc), I play a game like Diablo but ignore the hollow plot and just use my imagination.

It might sound silly, but personally I like games like Diablo or Sacred because the environment doesn''t force a story upon me but instead provide me with a complex, aesthetic world that stimulates my mind (of course, Sacred does have a deeper plot than Diablo but still you don''t have to play it for the most part). Just because an npc doesn''t say something in the game doesn''t mean I can''t imagine that he did. All the game does is sets some rules and provides some basic structure to the world. The rest happens in my mind.

So, Diablo can be a rpg, depending how you play it. If you just hack-n-slash, it''s more of an action game, but if you use your imagination and tell a story while playing (to yourself! It doesn''t matter if no one else ever hears of it, it''s for the sake of fun!), then I''d call it role-playing.
quote:Original post by Grim
What I mean is, just as the story in traditional pnp roleplaying takes place in the imaginations of the players why can''t this happen in a computer game? I mean, traditional pnp is much closer to writing/telling a story than reading it


That idea sort of links into my thread ''ganmes as moodpieces''. Which suggests that since games don''t have to be rigidly defined (likes books and movie stories are) maybe concentrating on standard techniques of getting ''emotion'' aren''t the best way of doing it.


If you mean is that instead of showing or telling the whole story we can provide hints and ambiguous clues, and use mysteries to drive the player on then I like that idea. Will Wright (The Sims creator) spoke once about how different types of design involve the viewer and said that certain minimalist designs (like zen gardens) can get the viewer to use their imaginations to fill in the blanks. Ie. With the Sims the player can use their imagination/reasoning to work out what is going on.
The player can look at the conversation bubbles and try to work out what the characters mean.

Silent Hill 2 had a story which was quite open to different interpretations, and maybe this is a good technique too.

I think that being able to attribute causes to events in computer games is important for involving the player''s imagination, if they think that the guards are there because the designer said so then it doesn''t matter. But if they think that they are there because the king is guarding something important then this is more interesting.

This topic is closed to new replies.

Advertisement