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johnnyBravo

Air unit war ideas?

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Hi, im thinking of making a game based on a war strategy game with flying units only, eg infantry with fans or rocket packs, helecopters, jets, blimps Has anyone any ideas of any other flying units, be specific as you want, maybe weapon ideas, just anything that pops into your head. It would be a futuristic game, based on the idea that the terrain of the planet is too mountainous to use ground units Thanks,

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An important part of an RTS is variation, if you only have air units any unit can go anywhere anytime. It would probably be a good idea to restrict this as much as posible. If the terain is very rough it could still be used for ground stations (anti air sites, etc.) Rough terain may make it imposible to walk on it, but it could make excelent shelter/cover (the infantry needs to sleep somewhere )

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Oh yeah, i was thinking of having land bases and all.
But all the units are off the ground.

Yeah I was thinking about having infantry being short ranged, so they would have to be deployed via the land base or some sort of transport.

and the ships could land in your bases.

Maybe some sort of fuel/ammuntion system so attacks would be harder to do then just sending mass units at the enemy,

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I realize it''s not quite what you''re asking for, but I was just thinking of the interesting gameplay you could do with clouds - a sort of natural fog of war that varies over time. You could have cloud creation units and wind generators that provide cover for surprise attacks or keep vulnerable units hidden.

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What I''ve never seen or read about anywhere is a high tech zeppelin, if you implent one you''ll be my hero.

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quote:
Original post by BoZo_
What I''ve never seen or read about anywhere is a high tech zeppelin, if you implent one you''ll be my hero.


lol, ofcourse, i think that will be my easiest unit to make, probably make it an infantry transport

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Okay. *cracks knuckles* Here we go!


  • A heavily armored, craft sporting 20 turbo-props whose sole purpose is flying through clouds of infantry and mulching them with the propellors. It would be relatively hard to shoot down because of all the engines, with engines on mounts designed to be replaced every flight just like missiles. Unweildy, a fuel hog.
  • Jet powered gliders capable of deploying wide strips of razor wire or chain from the wingtips. They cause damage just by passing by structures.
  • Flimsy gyrocopters with snipers (sorry, stolen from Crimson Skies, it''s a ship you can pilot). Can duck and dodge behind other units, or high terrain, like buttes or outcroppings of rock.
  • Suicidal AI missiles loaded by the dozens onto armored, bomber sized flying wings
  • Electrified dragnets connected to two large aircraft as an option to scoop up pesky infantry.
  • HALO (High Altitude, Low Opening) boarders that skydive onto bombers and capture them if the guns don''t pick them off
  • Cat''s Cradle fighter formation stringing monowire between them to disect or dewing other ships or vivisect infantry as they fly past at high speeds
  • Mineseed layers that deploy microscopic nanites which, when flown through, slowly dissolve a hull into goo
  • EMP missiles
  • Cloud makers that can create deadly walls of lightning filled clouds
  • Slow, stealthy hang-gliders that are virtually undetectable but have to use thermal updrafts
  • Holographic projectors that can mimic any part of the base


That''s it for me! Sounds fun!


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

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ok heres the units of definately going to use so far,

infantry guys with 2 fans on their back, :laser rifle
Helecopter :machine gun
ornithopter /or glider :rockets
airship :not sure

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quote:
Original post by BoZo_
What I''ve never seen or read about anywhere is a high tech zeppelin, if you implent one you''ll be my hero.


Seriously? Were you living under a rock five years ago?

The Kirov Zeppelin, the Soviet''s ultimate unit from Red Alert 2.

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Air units only… not sure if it will work out well. The key element that separates a good RTS from a bad one is the strategy element. Strategy is largely about employ tactics according to the terrain present – attacking weak points, defending bottlenecks, setting up indirect weapons on high ground, creaking turret kill zones that an enemy cannot penetrate but must pass through in order to mount an assault and attacking on multiple fronts just to name a few.
Suppose there is no terrain – no variation on the battlefield, no key defending points, no high and low ground, no blocked terrain etc. In every confrontation the faction with the stronger force will win, every time. One cannot strategically defend a location because attacks can come from any angle – therefore a player would simply bunch up their forces in the middle of the location and that is it. The game would evaluate to a race to build the greatest force – no tactics, no defending your base, no need to think, no need to play.
The clouds idea suggested may improve the situation but ultimately it would be better to simply go for a ground based RTS.
That said, there have been a few games that have employed your idea successfully – Homeworld for one, of which I heard was good but only briefly play. However, games like Homeworld add variation and give the player options by using a full 3D world and supplying a decent amount of control over unit behaviour (that actually makes a difference) – attack formations, for example.
Anyhow, that’s my input… thanks for reading.

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jack, ive been thinking of having limited range of units,

i don''t know if anyone has played netstorm but it consisted of floating islands in the sky.

Im thinking of doing the same thing, where you will mine off the islands and also use them for staging points for attacks.

Im also thinking of allowing the islands to be destroyed, either by over mining or bombing the enough.

Building will provide an important role for staging attacks, maybe hangers and the such, places to accept the ore mined.

so everything maybe based on taking other islands, using some for bases and others for mining.


im also thinking of how i am going to make the infantry very important, so they just dont get phased out like in every other game.

maybe allow them to recharge their fuel without having to land at hangers, so they can ''island hop''

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quote:
Original post by jack_1313
Air units only… not sure if it will work out well...



I disagree. I am currently developing a slow-paced, real-time space empire game. Outer space, obviously, has no terrain, much like the sky (at least in the context of this discussion). However, strategy is extremely important, as long as the game is designed properly.

Envision a huge map of empty space, with a few dozen small, floating islands. The space in between contains many clouds, some thin, others very dense. Storms, tall mountain peaks, or other events/obstacles could also be present. The player begins on a single island, with which he may build airships. There is a vast range of airships available, from slow, heavily armored dreadnaughts, to light, fast scouts. The player who is better able to deploy his forces where and when they are needed will win. The game would not be about who can build the "mostest the fastest" (although superior numbers would be an advantage). The primary aspect of the game's strategy would be deciding what units to use where, and when. Do you maintain a strong defense with a limited flanking offensive? Or, do you throw all your units in a concentrated offensive, and leave your cities/islands open to attack? Or, do you balance your offensive and defensive forces, and wait for the enemy to make a mistake.

A good way to get a grasp of good strategy in a wargame w/ little or no terrain would be Kohan (an excellent RTS, btw). Start a custom scenario w/ the largest possible map made up of 100% empty grass/plain. Although there is no terrain, the game will quickly become an epic struggle to maintain a defensive line around your cities, while attempting to break through the enemy's line with concentrated forces.

-Mike

[edited by - doctorsixstring on April 26, 2004 9:27:58 PM]

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by jack_1313
Air units only… not sure if it will work out well.


It''s different, but not worse. The main thing to keep in mind is distance. It''s much greater, much much greater. Fuel is a problem.

johnnyBravo: read up on the Pacific theatre and the European air war in World War II, and the air portion of every other war

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quote:
Original post by doctorsixstring
quote:
Original post by jack_1313
Air units only… not sure if it will work out well...



I disagree. I am currently developing a slow-paced, real-time space empire game. Outer space, obviously, has no terrain, much like the sky (at least in the context of this discussion).


Have you any screenshots, if the ships looked cool, id love to see anything on it

quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
johnnyBravo: read up on the Pacific theatre and the European air war in World War II, and the air portion of every other war


i definitely will!



..Ive been thinking more lately,
With the floating islands idea, id have a couple of main islands and lots of small ones between them.

The main ones belong to the players so they can build their bases etc.

THey also can expand a little on the surrounding islands.

The main idea of expanding is getting your hangers etc closer to the enemy so you can launch more powerful attacks.

Right now i got infantry can recharge without a hanger, so they just go from island to island and then recharge etc.

The helecopters will require a hanger to be launched from, but they can waste infantry

Ive got gliders which will be slow but can go extremely long ranges and drop a single bomb, a cool looking bomb at that! it will have wings

but i cant think of anything that will take out the gliders

edit:
maybe one of those planes with flapping wings, whada they called orthocopters or something, but then what takes them out?


[edited by - johnnyBravo on April 27, 2004 3:03:39 AM]

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quote:
Original post by johnnyBravo
Have you any screenshots, if the ships looked cool, id love to see anything on it



Unfortunately, I don''t. I''m still in the design & engine development phase. Give me a few months, and I''ll get back to you.

quote:
Original post by johnnyBravo
With the floating islands idea, id have a couple of main islands and lots of small ones between them.
The main ones belong to the players so they can build their bases etc.
THey also can expand a little on the surrounding islands.
The main idea of expanding is getting your hangers etc closer to the enemy so you can launch more powerful attacks.



This would be cool. The game''s focus could be on capturing and holding key islands while moving your offensive units against poorly-defended enemy islands.

Right now I am really into a more strategic style of gameplay in my strategy games (as opposed to single base vs. base tactical battles), so I would like to see each island as a single building/city which can be captured and possibly upgraded. This would shift some of the gameplay away from city-building and put more of an emphasis on unit deployment.

-Mike

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quote:
Original post by johnnyBravo
Ive got gliders which will be slow but can go extremely long ranges and drop a single bomb, a cool looking bomb at that! it will have wings

but i cant think of anything that will take out the gliders

edit:
maybe one of those planes with flapping wings, whada they called orthocopters or something, but then what takes them out?



- A small, lightweight glider that flies faster than the bomber glider, but has a much shorter range.
- A fast rocket plane with a very short range but very high acceleration.
- A zepplin/airship bristling with machine guns (slow, but will devastate any nearby soft targets, such as gliders or infantry).
- Patrol Glider - exactly the same as the bomber glider, but instead of a bomb it would carry a machine gun turret, a guided missile, a rocket pack, or whatever else you might think would be effective.
- AA batteries that can be installed on an island (by upgrading the island''s "defense" attribute?)
- Giant fans that push the glider away from a possible target. Or, they could create whirlwinds/tornadoes that would cause the glider to spin out of control.
- Giant, heated metal objects that are planted around a base. They create large thermal updrafts to push the glider high above the base. Or maybe they could start the glider on fire and cause it to crash. These heated objects would have a secondary benefit of burning attacking infanty (?).

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by jack_1313
Air units only… not sure if it will work out well.



johnnyBravo: read up on the Pacific theatre and the European air war in World War II, and the air portion of every other war


that just gave me an idea , ill probably have 2 balloons with a netbetween them to net the gliders, and the balloons are attached to the ground, so its

infantry->balloons->gliders
infantry->airship
helecopter->infantry/balloons/airship

and the idea with the nets between the balloons is that the gliders fly at a higher altitude to the other air units so the net is higher so infantry etc can fly underneath it.

quote:

- Giant fans that push the glider away from a possible target. Or, they could create whirlwinds/tornadoes that would cause the glider to spin out of control.
- Giant, heated metal objects that are planted around a base. They create large thermal updrafts to push the glider high above the base. Or maybe they could start the glider on fire and cause it to crash. These heated objects would have a secondary benefit of burning attacking infanty (?).


Thats an idea, ive also been thinking about forcefields etc,

The setting is sorta fantasy/futuristic, so its like some parts are more technological but other parts are still old, eg gliders, some weapons

I also want to veer away from a wide range of units, just some really cool units that are required for each strategic problem. I dunno if this is a good idea , but i can always change it later

quote:

Dobbs I realize it's not quite what you're asking for, but I was just thinking of the interesting gameplay you could do with clouds - a sort of natural fog of war that varies over time. You could have cloud creation units and wind generators that provide cover for surprise attacks or keep vulnerable units hidden.



i'd like to do that but im not sure on how to develop fast enough code for that




[edited by - johnnyBravo on April 27, 2004 9:33:42 PM]

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Guest Anonymous Poster
First thing that came into my mind when i saw this thread was: gas giants...
Like cloud city from Star Wars...

If your game would take place in the upper athmospheres of gas giants then that would give a perfectly good reason as to why there are no ground units.
Would make a painfull death for the infantry units should they run out of fuel lol.


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Guest Anonymous Poster
ohhh, another thing i just thought about...

A third alternative as a reason for the absence of ground units (besides too mountaines or gas giant) could be: a planet entirely covered with molten lava. (like earth was when it had just formed) Or maybe due to some freak accident that messed up the entire world, spawning volcanoes across the entire planet''s surface.

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yeah i was thinking maybe along the lines of a gas giant or something now, maybe the islands contain some kind of metal that allows them to float higher then the worlds surface

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This sort of game (floating islands, except with a trippy steampunk aircraft theme) has already been done before... Radon Labs, their first release using the free/open source Nebula engine. You might check the Project Nomads Demo out for ideas (it was a weird action/RTS hybrid that in my opinion, didn't come together just right). The idea of an RTS with only air (or primarily air) units is worth exploring methinks.

(Suggestion) Perhaps the infantry are the only units capable of taking control of an island, but on their own they are weak/defensless against air threats... attacking would be like waging a convoy protection battle against the other player who is attempting to destroy it before you can land any infantry on their base. This would somewhat sharpen the conflict, by giving a reason (other than the floating islands) for units to congregate... indeed such "terrain" would even be constantly changing (making the relatively trackless terrain of the sky a little more interesting).

[edited by - SteevR on April 28, 2004 4:37:47 AM]

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Hmmm the demo i downloaded was corrupted

I also found another game called Time of Defiance, an online strategy game.

But i don''t think id go towards battleships etc, because if you had only floating islands id believe resources would be too scare to waste on battleships, maybe just some airships or blimps or zepplins whatever you call them.

But what kind of weapon would suit them?

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