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what makes a good game - facts, not personal opinion please

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Is there any written bible or article anywhere on what makes a good game and what does not? Take Super Mario Brothers on the NES for example; what made that a successful game. I'm not looking for personal opinion, I'm looking for facts if they exist. I'm also more interested in platform games than games in general. Thanks for your help, this forum always comes up with something useful. [edited by - EvilKind on April 23, 2004 8:32:25 AM]

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quote:
Original post by EvilKind
Take Super Mario Brothers on the NES for example; what made that a successful game.



Well I thought Super Mario Brothers was not a good game.

Ok.. just kidding But the problem is that asking if someone likes a game is asking for opinions not facts.

Doom3 will probably be great game.. if you like graphics but if you want some superior gameplay it may not be the best.

There are a lot of articles about designing a game and also some books about the subject:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/article_display.php?category=4
They''re reviewing some books about designing computer games.

A good game is the collection of graphics and gameplay. Where gameplay includes things like AI.

People wil(mostly I think) buy a game because of the grahpics and the story. When they start playing they will notice how great everything looks, how well they can control their character and how their opponents react on them. All those things together should attract a player.

I like Zelda really much. The one for the sness is the best game ever made :D Because the world is gigantic and the puzzles are cool

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quote:
Original post by Fruny
Whether a game is good or not is a personal opinion.


Thats the point, Mario Brothers did so well because alot of people had the "Personal Opinion" that it was a good game.

Also what makes a game a "Good" game? is it good when alot of people play it, or is it good when there are no bugs or problems with it?

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maybe I am more after what features some of the best platform games had going for them. for example:

super mario brothers
The classic game is widely considered to have been the first side-scrolling platform game of its kind, introducing players to huge, bright, expansive worlds that changed the way video games were created, played, and perceived

What I'm not after is Jim like super mario brothers because he got to climb the beanstalk.

[edited by - EvilKind on April 23, 2004 10:02:20 AM]

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quote:
Original post by EvilKind
Is there any written bible or article anywhere on what makes a good game and what does not?

... I''m not looking for personal opinion, I''m looking for facts if they exist...


That''s a pretty silly question. How can it be anything other than personal opinion?

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What makes a game good is everyones personal opinion, the thing is not everyone likes the same games which means if you were to make a game that everyone liked (mostly everyone) you would be very limmited in what you could do. You would have to strike out fighting games because you get a lot of people that dont like violence, the same for stratagy, and other type i cant think of at the moment. But what i think does work (personal opinion see ) is games that are simple, colourfull and fun or funny. (The reason i think Super Mario Brothers did so well.)

So i think along the lines of Simple, Colourfull and Fun would bring the most people to you game.

But then again everyone could be lazy sad old bas****s.






You laugh at me because im different,I laugh at you because you are all the same.

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And offcourse you need to think about your target audience..

If you target young kids ''Simple, Colourfull and Fun'' will give you a good game but when you''re going for let''s say around 18 years old(I''m 18 :D) you should come with something more challenging(how do you write that? :D)..

For what people do you want to write a game? And what kind of games do you like yourself?

I''m not going to write a game I really hate just because I wouldn''t be motivated to write it..

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quote:
Original post by JohnBolton
That's a pretty silly question. How can it be anything other than personal opinion?


In order to create a successful game one should understand the successes and failures of previous examples where possible such as like looking at the previous system. This is known as requirement gathering or part of it.

so how do you research previous systems or platform games in this matter then. If it was a banking system a client wanted I would look at their previous system and maybe ask them what needs improving.

What should I be analyzing if I'm making a platform game?


Am I just wasting my time trying to obtain background information first?
Thanks



[edited by - EvilKind on April 23, 2004 1:34:43 PM]

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quote:
Original post by EvilKind
Is there any written bible or article anywhere on what makes a good game and what does not?

Take Super Mario Brothers on the NES for example; what made that a successful game. I''m not looking for personal opinion, I''m looking for facts if they exist. I''m also more interested in platform games than games in general.

Thanks for your help, this forum always comes up with something useful.

[edited by - EvilKind on April 23, 2004 8:32:25 AM]

unfortunately, there are no facts when it comes to good games. all people can do is give opinion. but what most do is get a game that''s been overwhelmingly popular and get opinions, positive and negative, and learn from that. incorporating those qualities or lack thereof into their own game. notice i said quality and not content.

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SMB 1 and 3 were good, if not great, IMHO, because the game had you doing something different throughout the whole game and there were different challenge at each world. Also after you beat the game then there were the secrets! such as hopping through the wall (1st world) to go to the infinite swimming world; hopping on the turtle to get 50 to 100 lives (but also finding out that if you got more than a 100, you''d still as if you never got them); finding those warp pipes that allow you to go to world 4 to world 8; and (i don''t think too many people know about this) being able to shoot fireball as small Mario.

The game just gave you more reason to play and had plenty of challenges to make it fun and, most importantly, rewarding.

SMB 3 was everything above X 10 and all the multi-levels, costumes, and other stuff i can''t remember was just ridiculously sweet!!!

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The only thing I can say without any opinions, is that it''s as bugfree as possible. I could say technically advanced, but some of the games I consider very good are not the most technically advanced, so I have to leave that out.

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No matter how bad or good a game is, you'll like it if it's in your niche. I like Turn-Based strategic rpgs, so I liked Jagged Alliance and FFT. Even though SAW was considered a poor game (or at least inferior to JA2), I still loved it.

EDIT: SAW = soldiers at war

[edited by - Drakkcon on April 23, 2004 7:54:28 PM]

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I think this suffices...

Create a world, that can be simple if you want it to be, and complex if you need it to be. Super Mario Bros. was a new game back then, it had that new feel, the new world where the music, graphics, and storyline all fit. Create a world where everything "fits".

Also, look on amazon.com and search for 'game programming', there are some there. But really..your gonna waste your money
-Vigo

[edited by - Vigo on April 23, 2004 10:19:12 PM]

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My real quick 2 cents.

I think that good game design shouldn''t be noticed. It should be so intuitive, that the end users just looks at it and goes "That''s obvious". So, a good game, is a game where you don''t have to think about playing it. Where nothing is counter-intuitine.

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The most important thing of all... games must be ENTERTAINING! It's all about having your user to ask for more and more. Your game could be the most colorful, original, simple, graphically perfect game ever, if the user doesn't have fun, it won't last long... look at Homeworld and Black&White.

To know what fun actually is, you must read books and psychology stuff or simpler yet, ask to yourself what makes something fun? Basically, we have fun with activities that we would do for :

________________
Survival (of yourself and your kind) - Animal fun
For men : run, kill, hunt, protect yourself, be greedy, do skillful moves, show that you are the best/strongest/alpha male and sex of course.

For women : politics, social, family, show that you are the best mother, sex (which are all VERY difficult to emulate on a computer, hence the total lack of incredibly interesting games for women on computers/consoles))

For cats : Hunt, hunt, hunt... dig. They are very happy with a moving ball on the screen (until they realize they can't really catch it -- no reward).

________________
Escape reality - Human fun
Adventure, puzzles, role playing, solitaires.
Those are liked by women because we both (men and women) like to escape our fatal reality. While you play Tetris, you don't think about your work, your mortgage and what you will look like in 150 years. If a game becomes too complicated or realistic, you can't escape reality and lose interest.
________________
Rewards
We need a reason to play. If you don't have a feeling of accomplishment, you will have the impression of losing your time and quit playing.

The secret is in never denying that we are animals, we gonna die... and we hate it.

________________


[edited by - Coincoin on April 23, 2004 12:34:48 AM]

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