• Advertisement

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Sleep and the level up lottery

This topic is 5029 days old which is more than the 365 day threshold we allow for new replies. Please post a new topic.

If you intended to correct an error in the post then please contact us.

Recommended Posts

I''ve got a very bizarre approach to eating and sleeping in an RPG that just might make them something more than an inconvenience. Players start the game as refugees at a central location and as such are innoculated. Storywise, they''re injected with nanotechnology which regulates their bodies and builds an implant in their brain. Nanotech helps them to stay healthy as they explore wildly different alien environments or interact with aliens, and the implant helps them store and recall more knowledge than a human normally could. Gameplaywise, eating and sleeping restore health, as in many RPGs. If the player is in any kind of civilization, and doesn''t have food but has money or property, they''re assumed to be eating and sleeping. A minimum stipend is automatically deducted each eat and rest period, unless they have property or a ship, inwhich case its free. The stipend scales with their reputation, but is overridden if the player uses facilities on the map (like a fleabag hotel). Items like stimpacks and nutripills help them ignore their needs and keep functioning. Wild / Hostile / Destitute If they''re marooned on an unsettled world, too poor, or behind enemy lines however, they have a timed meter for eating and sleeping which kicks in. This creates goal based gameplay no matter what map their on. Eating
  • Players not equipped with food must eat or all healing effects become capped.
  • Not eating in 5 days caps healing to 75%, 15 days after that to 50%, 30 days to 25%.
  • After 35 days without food, the player is reduced to one hit point as their nanotech cannibalizes their tissue to keep their vital organs and brain alive.
  • Players can beg for food at the cost of a lowered reputation and negative social reaction
  • Players can break into locations or mug other NPCs for resources to buy food
  • Players can click on dumpster disposals and risk lowered reputation if witnessed and the possibility of disease
Sleeping
  • Players must find secure shelter and sleep when their sleep meter runs out or all skill tests they try will be no better than 50/50, even if their skills would make the test higher.
  • Every time they try an automatic skill, like aiming, a red reminder quietly pops up over the skill result.
  • All minigames (which rely on player skill) are set to maximum difficulty
  • Sleeping in a socially unsanctioned place, like a park bench, earns lowered reputation due to the social stigma, and opens a player up to attack by brigands and fines or jail by police on some worlds.
  • Some worlds have shelters for free. Interesting NPCs can be met there, just like any other place on the map.
Normal / Level Up Even though they don''t need to eat in civilized areas when they have money, leveling up might give them the incentive to maintain the role-playing feel. But in this case it''s NOT mandatory: Their nanotech system can be configured by eating, their implant "familiar" by dreaming. The system can assimilate new material every few hours, coinciding with the player''s normal hunger cycle. The implant can synthesize new information every so many hours, in time with the player''s sleep cycle. Eating
  • Eating different vitamin/nano enriched foods raise resistance to one element or disease while always lowering another. Zelenae Brainwheat, for instance, allows them to configure their nano so that the get +2 vs. electrical damage, but -3 versus heat damage.
  • The amount raised or lowered depends on the type and quality of food.
  • Certain alien foods, like Kovaunn Bilemeal, would require a Will check, depending on the species. Failure would result in an inability to eat the food for that time period.
  • Alien/incompatible foods would have the biggest gains but most risk associated, as in temporary poisoning, paralysis or stat loss.
  • The quality of the food relates to the ratio of positive to negative effects, as well as its expense
  • Cooking food would change nano-properties, and there may be some room for genetic experimentation and cooking gear.
  • Civilied areas would contain roaming robot kiosks, restaurants and dives which had varying types and qualities of quisine. Some places in the universe would be more reknown for certain dishes than others.
Sleeping
  • Sleeping allows the player to train in their dreams, improving skills
  • The player plays a minigame to improve their skills
  • Skills don''t become hardcoded in memory until the player wakes up
  • They can play one round of the minigame once for each hour they sleep
  • They can only sleep a maximum of double the species average (16 for terrans)
  • The better they do at the game, the more points they get (from between 1-3 per round)
  • The higher their skill, the tougher the game becomes
  • Failures in the minigame can erase successes of previous rounds, by so many points
  • Players can make their skills go up by more than 1-3 rounds by risking up to 10 points in an existing skill they previously learned. This buys them 1 extra point, but if they lose, they lose 10 skill points. (Their brain is reorganizing neurons and memory).
  • Different facilities and gadgets modify the number of rounds they can play. A cot near a noisy machine, for instance, is -6 rounds, while a Dreambed gives +2.
Comments? -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advertisement
Overall, it seems like a pretty sweet system. Just to make sure, the dream mini-games are optional, right? I'd hate to have to spend a few minutes rerouting my potassium gates when I am in the middle of an important salvage mission. It would break up gameplay too much.

The only real problem I have with the system is the penalties for not eating. I recomment that you make the system a little bit more sophisticated. After all, if I've been starving for twenty days, and I have the 50% penalty, and I eat a cheeseburger, I'll be back to zero days without eating, and 100% combat effective status.

Besides, a month is probably too long a time. Can a non-yogi actually go thirty days without nourishment and survive?

Here's an idea: Use a five-day system. Those fifteen meals are the ones that are actively affecting your current ability. If you miss five of the fifteen, it knocks you down ten percent on all your caps. Ten is 25%, and at fifteen you are down to the 50% level and the damage begins to become permanent. For every few days of starvation your attributes dowgrade in a semi-permenent way, maybe a little bit like the skill atrophy system. If you're really emaciated, your muscles will waste away and your senses will be dulled, so it's fair that your stats for strength, perception, etc. would be hurt or at least penalized, but you could probably rebuild them with some nutrition and effort.

To recover, you have to actually get back into a healthy eating pattern, so when you start eating again, it takes five days of better eating to get you back to 100%. The skill atrophy stops as soon as vitamins re-enter your system, and after that meal you're in the 1-5 meals in the last five days bracket, and then you get into the 6-10 bracket, and finally the 11-15 peak, where all your faculties are fully intact. Any atrophy that occurred in the interim can be regained at an accelerated rate, like the skill atrophy system.

[edited by - Iron Chef Carnage on May 7, 2004 12:34:29 PM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
well what can i say ? Other then rocksolid haha..

Only one thing is that Iron Chef is right about that if you would not have eaten for a long time and you eat something it doesnt mean that you would be reset to 100% vitality but it would just be added to what it was..

And about starvation, my fiance studies for being a doctor/nurse, the correct stats for starving and such are that :

you can do almost 80 days without food, but not even 30 days without water of some other kind of fluid.
Our body depends more heavily on water and keeping yourself fluid sustaining that on food which we can do longer without ,
but that would just be if you want to keep it realistic otherwise just ignore that.

Good luck again, cya when i cya !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just want to mention, dehydration begins at around 3-5 days, after which you would lose any concentation and ability to work, or even lose conscienceness. You might live for 30 days total without water, but you''ll be in a coma for 25 of those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
Just to make sure, the dream mini-games are optional, right? I''d hate to have to spend a few minutes rerouting my potassium gates when I am in the middle of an important salvage mission. It would break up gameplay too much.


You got it. Even sleeping and eating are optional when you''re aboard ship or at a settlement, which is where I''m thinking the player is going to be spending at least 75% of their play time. So for 3/4 of the time, they only sleep or eat if they want to improve their character.

I''m also thinking that the minigames, for variety''s sake, will be the same minigames in normal skill tests. When the player is lucid dreaming, they''ll just play the game on a fade to black screen and get a dialog asking them what skill related minigame they want to level up.

quote:

Here''s an idea: Use a five-day system. Those fifteen meals are the ones that are actively affecting your current ability. If you miss five of the fifteen, it knocks you down ten percent on all your caps. Ten is 25%, and at fifteen you are down to the 50% level and the damage begins to become permanent. For every few days of starvation your attributes dowgrade in a semi-permenent way, maybe a little bit like the skill atrophy system. If you''re really emaciated, your muscles will waste away and your senses will be dulled, so it''s fair that your stats for strength, perception, etc. would be hurt or at least penalized, but you could probably rebuild them with some nutrition and effort.

To recover, you have to actually get back into a healthy eating pattern, so when you start eating again, it takes five days of better eating to get you back to 100%. The skill atrophy stops as soon as vitamins re-enter your system, and after that meal you''re in the 1-5 meals in the last five days bracket, and then you get into the 6-10 bracket, and finally the 11-15 peak, where all your faculties are fully intact. Any atrophy that occurred in the interim can be regained at an accelerated rate, like the skill atrophy system.



This is much better! Alright, I''ll use this and do some double checking on nutrition to set the outside limit, then add implants and items that will help extend it. I like the effects of malnutrition lowering stats as well, it has a ring of authenticity and can make some of the Robinson Crusoe / Pitch Black / Castaway scenarios I envision pretty challenging.


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the notes on nutrition and fluids, guys. Is this something you would even care to manage more realistically?

There are two approaches I can take:

1) Handwave and say the nano converts part of the food and air you take in into water. This means if you crashland, you''re looking at dealing with finding food every 5 days or your healing gets affected, then at maybe 20 days, your stats start becoming affected.

2) Make it sophistocated: Gadgets you could buy or rig would get you water, but there''d be different qualities, some radioactive, poisonous or bacteria infected. This would lead to items you could buy and carry around, like survival gear or a "still suit" (like in Dune), or rig, like a condensor or purifier.


You could also have different requirements for water, say as in none if you''re in colder regions of a planet, or more frequent if you''re on a blazing desert world.


Seriously, is this going off the deep end? You wouldn''t deal with it unless you''re shipwrecked, your systems on a ship have been damaged, you''re too poor in a city, or you''ve somehow gotten trapped inside ancient ruins. Part of me leans toward doing it because it''s gritty, but part of me is concerned that it''s overkill.

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Poster
Mini-games while you dream? What like Pong etc (or the GamePig in System Shock 2?). Sounds fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My god, i have the same dream system, i do this with every non activepart of my project. I make it so you still would have something to do, like when you dream, or when you craft, nice !

And I wuold love for a realistic nutricioun system, so it wouldnt be to complex...

in my system sleep also effects the next day you wake up, say your haveing lots of bad dream,s it would make you a bit grumpy and your concentration would go down, you would be less fitt and so on....

[edited by - Jamaludin on May 8, 2004 3:44:22 AM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don''t think that you should have to click the "eat" button every few minutes or hours. On the other hand, if you''re going to be starving, you might want to be able to keep your guy from scarfing all the MREs on the first day. Perhaps you could have "victuals" as a commodity, like ammo, and so you''d have eight pounds of condensed cheeseburgers and Tang in your pack.

You could sett your eating rate like in Oregon Trail, to "Filling", "Meager", or "Bare Bones", and each of these would correspond to one of the stat levels. If you''re at "filling", you''re getting three meals a day. "Meager" is two, and "bare bones" is one. That way you can go with no stat loss, some stat loss, or more stat loss, but as long as you have food, you won''t drop down to the "skill atrophy" level of starvation.

It''s an easier way for the player to manage the rationing, especially when you''ve got two or three people with you, like after a shipwreck or during a long mission on a planet. I''m not sure whatscenarios you have in mind, but I envision things like dropping off a surveying team and then coming back a week later to pick them up with their data, or deploying a mining crew with a small group of riflemen to keep them safe, and swinging by once a month to resupply them, change the shift and pick up the ore.

I don''t know about water. It''s another deal entirely, but it seems less "playable" than food. I''d be inclined to just "magic" it away with some kind of still-suit/atmospheric condenser/recycling port-a-john that will guarantee that you always have water. Maybe on desert planets the condensers would be less effective and you''d have to build a "tele-well" that will beam water from under the planet''s surface to a reservoir, but since there''s no real benefit to water, simplify it.

I''m only going along with the food system because you have dietary effects, especially on training. I''d also like diets to be automated, like a menu system instead of individually preparing each meal. Characters could have "food preparation" skills, and when they cook morale goes up and food is more effective, so they could make a meal out of eight units of food instead of using ten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
I don't think that you should have to click the "eat" button every few minutes or hours.



Very much agreed, that would get annoying VERY fast. In the case of poverty and uncivilized space, I'm thinking more of a resource bars that show up onscreen, under an interface area called "Survival." The bar simply drops as time goes by.

If you've got a group, you've got 3 toggles: You can look at yourself, any other character, or the pooled resources of your group. There'd be a checkbox to the effect of "Share Resources," which would also help in sharing recovery items and ammo.

quote:

You could sett your eating rate like in Oregon Trail, to "Filling", "Meager", or "Bare Bones", and each of these would correspond to one of the stat levels.



I remember this! This is a great idea! It gives you a bit more choice, and it would be reflected very simply by how far the survival bars drop.

I actually played Oregon Trail alot as a kid, and having to deal with supplies really helped suspend disbelief. It's something that I thought would have made a great element in Fallout or Morrowind because it would set short-term goals for you while you're out in the wilderness. It would (at least for me) also increase that "frontiersman" feel, whereby if you screw up by not bringing enough, you've got to either trade, hunt or steal your way back to safety. (Mmmmm... delicious sauteed radscorpion tail, can't ya just taste it. )

quote:

I'm not sure whatscenarios you have in mind, but I envision things like dropping off a surveying team and then coming back a week later to pick them up with their data, or deploying a mining crew with a small group of riflemen to keep them safe, and swinging by once a month to resupply them, change the shift and pick up the ore.


With these scenarios, you're on the other side of the equation, and the principals supply themselves. But I'm mostly thinking of this in terms of you out there exploring when something goes wrong, or crashlanded on a planet.

quote:

I don't know about water. It's another deal entirely, but it seems less "playable" than food. I'd be inclined to just "magic" it away with some kind of still-suit/atmospheric condenser/recycling port-a-john that will guarantee that you always have water. Maybe on desert planets the condensers would be less effective and you'd have to build a "tele-well" that will beam water from under the planet's surface to a reservoir, but since there's no real benefit to water, simplify it.



This would only apply in survival mode. The real question here is whether or not I should handwave for a completely unequipped character marooned on a desert world. If there was a "Survival" interface that popped up when you were in trouble, water could be a bar below food, and subject to the same rationing.

I'd add suits and gadgets anyway that would help take care of water, but what to do for the player who loses these items or doesn't bring them along? Does the meter just run out and they get a bleached bones cutscene?

Water could lead to interesting scenarios, like monsters guarding a watering hole, or cannibalizing equipement to make a condensor. On a desolate planet with no enemies and little interactivity, it MIGHT provide interesting gameplay as you trudge around the planet looking for some way off.

Or, given all the other factors in the game, it might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. It's a tough call.

quote:

I'm only going along with the food system because you have dietary effects, especially on training. I'd also like diets to be automated, like a menu system instead of individually preparing each meal.



Okay, I think we might be miscommunicating.

You only eat for two reasons: "survival mode" when you have to, or for character resistance alteration.

If you're in civilized space, or on your ship, you never see survival mode. You're assumed to be eating foods regularly, and not triggering your nano to change because of this.

Now, only when you want "resistance to electrical damage" or whatever do you go to a store, storeroom or restaurant and actually right click on the food and select something like "synthesize nano" or whatever. It would be like taking a potion in Morrowind, or consciously choosing to use a drug in Fallout-- only all foods are drugs if you want them to be.

The shipwrecked or destitute player in "survivor mode" doesn't deal with "synthesizing nano" unless they want to. Food is automatically deducted from their inventory. But if they choose to click on one of their foodstuff items, they could balance their character as well (maybe resisting heat in the desert so that they use less water?)

quote:

Characters could have "food preparation" skills, and when they cook morale goes up and food is more effective, so they could make a meal out of eight units of food instead of using ten.


Yes, cooking itself is again automatic onboard ship. You have food, you have facilities, you have crew whose needs are automatically taken care of (minus an energy and labor point cost).

The food prep for character configuration is an act of standing next to a food prep node and maybe clicking to use it. Like alchemy in Morrowind, it simply triggers a menu that allows you to combine items and get different properties based on your skill.

The only reason I wouldn't make the nutrition / nano configuration for resistances automated is because I don't see the player having to keep it up to keep up resistances. You eat meals, tell your nano to configure itself, and you get resistances. If you stop this gameplay, you're assumed not to be telling your nano to convert food you automatically eat behind the scenes. And you keep your resistances (and corresponding vulnerabilities)

Now, getting higher and higher resistances means that you end up clicking on the autochef or going to the sushi kiosk more and more, but this can be mitigated by quality of food, which give you more points per click.


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

[edited by - Wavinator on May 8, 2004 3:17:16 PM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Wavinator
Nanotech helps them to stay healthy as they explore wildly different alien environments or interact with aliens, and the implant helps them store and recall more knowledge than a human normally could.



Are there any side effects to the procedure? Perhaps Instead of drinking water the player has to drink an ionized solution to recharge and replace their nanotech.

quote:

If they''re marooned on an unsettled world, too poor, or behind enemy lines however, they have a timed meter for eating and sleeping which kicks in. This creates goal based gameplay no matter what map their on.



Perhaps there could be hunger bar and thirst bar, they stay at zero as long as the player is able to eat at every day. If they can''t eat the bar begins to fill slowly, say 1% every 3 hours. Each food could have a hunger reduction stat, eating that food reduces the hunger bar by its hunger reduction stat. However hunger can only be reduced once every twelve hours, so eating a lot of food would only provide the reduction benefit of the food with highest reduction stat the rest is essentially wasted. The hunger bar would reduces all stats and skill by its propotinal to its current value. So if the play is 5% hungry and then all their stats and skills would be reduced by 5%.



quote:

Eating

  • Eating different vitamin/nano enriched foods raise resistance to one element or disease while always lowering another. Zelenae Brainwheat, for instance, allows them to configure their nano so that the get +2 vs. electrical damage, but -3 versus heat damage.
  • The amount raised or lowered depends on the type and quality of food.
  • Certain alien foods, like Kovaunn Bilemeal, would require a Will check, depending on the species. Failure would result in an inability to eat the food for that time period.
  • Alien/incompatible foods would have the biggest gains but most risk associated, as in temporary poisoning, paralysis or stat loss.
  • The quality of the food relates to the ratio of positive to negative effects, as well as its expense
  • Cooking food would change nano-properties, and there may be some room for genetic experimentation and cooking gear.
  • Civilied areas would contain roaming robot kiosks, restaurants and dives which had varying types and qualities of quisine. Some places in the universe would be more reknown for certain dishes than others.



Parsona 2: eternal punishment allowed you to eat food, it had the effect of temporarly increasing stats, the actual stats and increase depended on the food you ate, the effect where only tempory however and you couldn''t eat anything while you where under the effect of another food. Perhaps the same could be applied here? Rather then having all food permantly change stats, make the changes tempory. There could be specific substance that could provide a perment change but they should be uncommon and perhaps not things that players would normally consider "food".

quote:

Sleeping

  • Sleeping allows the player to train in their dreams, improving skills
  • The player plays a minigame to improve their skills
  • Skills don''t become hardcoded in memory until the player wakes up
  • They can play one round of the minigame once for each hour they sleep
  • They can only sleep a maximum of double the species average (16 for terrans)
  • The better they do at the game, the more points they get (from between 1-3 per round)
  • The higher their skill, the tougher the game becomes
  • Failures in the minigame can erase successes of previous rounds, by so many points
  • Players can make their skills go up by more than 1-3 rounds by risking up to 10 points in an existing skill they previously learned. This buys them 1 extra point, but if they lose, they lose 10 skill points. (Their brain is reorganizing neurons and memory).
  • Different facilities and gadgets modify the number of rounds they can play. A cot near a noisy machine, for instance, is -6 rounds, while a Dreambed gives +2.




Rather then allow the player to do this whenever they sleep, it might be better to have a special faciliy that is required to do this. Say the Transendance chamber, a special chamber that the player has to pay to use, they can be found at diffrent ports and even purchased at a ridculious fee for the ship. You could have diffrent version of the chamber from the pristine high tech model to the bootleg built from salavge model.


-----------------------------------------------------
"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The main question about survial mode is, is every explorable planet surviable? If the my ship is destroyed in a battle orbiting a planet and I surive by leaping out a hole in the bridge in a drop suit and then free falling through planet''s atmosphere and landing in the middle of a barren desert world, can I be assured of survial? Will I always be able to find food, water, shelter and means of leaving the planet? Or will I just have to wait and see if I die of thirst before the giant worms eat me. If not every place is surviable or only surviable with specilized equipment, does that mean that if I get stuck on one of those planets my only hope is to have an eariler saved game?



-----------------------------------------------------
"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You could give the captain "nine lives" or something, so if you wind up on a deserted world, with no supplies, no communications gear, and no transportation, you''ll slowly die of thirst, but a miracle will occur. You''ll be crawling over a sand dune, singing quietly in your madness, and then collapse. Then you wake up in the medical wing of the nearest space station, with one of your allies(see nemesis thread) looking over you. "That was a close one. We went to dig up some quaternary hydro-butyl alanine-3 and we wind up with a dried-up space captain! How do you feel?"

That might work a few times, or as long as you have a good enough friend in the mining/pirate/terraforming/military/whatever career to get you. You lose a month or so, take a temporary penalty to your strength and some of your skills (which can be recovered) and you lose your ship.

Better than perma-death, anyway.

@Wavinator:

I guess the water system could be used as well, but it seems to me that two systems that do the same thing seem a little redundant (by definition). Maybe if you could get water into the "rationing system", and just have a commodity called "sustenance" that gives all the nutritive benefits of a home-cooked meal but doesn''t do anything for morale, since it tastes like cardboard stew. Think of the "Tasty Wheat" scene in The Matrix.

That way, you only really have to deal with one "eat-to-live" dynamic. Actually acquiring water and food from different sources could be done, I suppose, but don''t get too technical here. Unless you want players to be retiring from spaceflight and enjoying an exremely complex game of "live on a mountaintop on mars".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If your crew members get too hungry, they could turn to cannibalism...

Pretty gruesome, but you could do this...

--------------------------------------
I am the master of stories.....
If only I could just write them down...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
Are there any side effects to the procedure? Perhaps Instead of drinking water the player has to drink an ionized solution to recharge and replace their nanotech.



There''s a System bar, a twin of health (actually, in the middle of it graphics wise) that measures the nano. It gets replaced in medical procedures, as the post-apocalyptic setting makes the process more risky and less routine than taking a shot or drinking a potion. (Storywise, that is.)


quote:

Perhaps there could be hunger bar and thirst bar, they stay at zero as long as the player is able to eat at every day. If they can''t eat the bar begins to fill slowly, say 1% every 3 hours. Each food could have a hunger reduction stat, eating that food reduces the hunger bar by its hunger reduction stat. However hunger can only be reduced once every twelve hours, so eating a lot of food would only provide the reduction benefit of the food with highest reduction stat the rest is essentially wasted. The hunger bar would reduces all stats and skill by its propotinal to its current value. So if the play is 5% hungry and then all their stats and skills would be reduced by 5%.



The main trouble I see for you as a player is that you suddenly wouldn''t be able to achieve skills that are on a threshold, because of food. And if you were on the threshold of hunger itself, you''d have to wait a certain number of hours before you could fix the problem.

Am I misunderstanding you?

quote:

Parsona 2: eternal punishment allowed you to eat food, it had the effect of temporarly increasing stats, the actual stats and increase depended on the food you ate, the effect where only tempory however and you couldn''t eat anything while you where under the effect of another food. Perhaps the same could be applied here? Rather then having all food permantly change stats, make the changes tempory. There could be specific substance that could provide a perment change but they should be uncommon and perhaps not things that players would normally consider "food".


You know, this is interesting. If you wanted the cold resistance, what I saw was that the food would give you small changes toward it, that may or may not help in the situation you were in. If you had to get into a low temperature room to perform repairs sometime in the next couple of days, for instance, you could eat food over a couple of meal periods and start giving yourself some defense. Same too if you were preparing to go into battle with a certain creature or race.

I like the idea that the effects don''t stay permanent because they give you a reason to keep eating even if you''re only dealing with the same challenge.

quote:

Rather then allow the player to do this whenever they sleep, it might be better to have a special faciliy that is required to do this. Say the Transendance chamber, a special chamber that the player has to pay to use, they can be found at diffrent ports and even purchased at a ridculious fee for the ship. You could have diffrent version of the chamber from the pristine high tech model to the bootleg built from salavge model.



Technically, there are a bunch of different "pods" planned for skilling and leveling up stats. This was just one more way of adding points for those truly dedicated players, and those who might (in an open ended environment) find themselves faced with a challenge, stuck and unable to level up past it (you can tell I''m paranoid about the player becoming stuck, can''t you :/)

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Nathaniel Hammen
If your crew members get too hungry, they could turn to cannibalism...

Pretty gruesome, but you could do this...



Let''s see, got rules for attacking an ally... now, converting an ally to food...?

I''m not sure how I''d even begin to handle this one (let alone what the parents would say... )

Drop body icon onto stove???? Perhaps we shouldn''t even go there.



--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
The main question about survial mode is, is every explorable planet surviable?



No. About 1/2 are hostile without some form of protection from hard radiation, portable atmosphere and supplies. Of the remainder, about 40% are marginally habitable due to the monsters in the game, or bacteria, creatures or extreme environmental conditions. The remaining 10% are just fine, but only a small portion of those are inhabited.

quote:

If the my ship is destroyed in a battle orbiting a planet and I surive by leaping out a hole in the bridge in a drop suit and then free falling through planet''s atmosphere and landing in the middle of a barren desert world, can I be assured of survial?



Cool scenario! If you''re in an orbit-to-ground suit, you''re alive for as long as the suit has supplies in all but a few environments (planet with oceans of magma, a mercury style world with extreme infalling heat and radiation, or a gas giant, where you''ll be crushed).

Let''s say you do get to the ground. You never even see your meters for rations or oxygen, nor any meteres for heat or pressure, because you''re buttoned up.

Optionally, you can pull up a paper doll and click some settings on the suit-- open faceplate, say. If there''s breathable atmosphere outside, you not only conserve your suit supplies, you still don''t get an oxygen meter.

It''s when you''ve got a hole in your suit on an airless world and no patch kit that you have to worry.

quote:

Will I always be able to find food, water, shelter and means of leaving the planet?



I am increasing leaning toward an idea of prefab shelters in various states of repair dotting most planets. So even if you''re on an airless world, you may still be able to get to a small utility dome with a cheap transmitter that can call for help. The determining factor for this, though, would whether you have enough supplies to get to a shelter.

quote:

Or will I just have to wait and see if I die of thirst before the giant worms eat me.



It''s very possible that you could land on a planet with high saline content, rich (but undrinkable) oceans, no water holes and no supplies. Maybe you''ve crashlanded, maybe you''ve been hijacked by mutineers or pirates, maybe you got lost wandering away from your single-man shuttle while exploring. In these cases, I regret to say that you''d be hosed.

Do you think such a case would be a gameplay "show stopper?"

quote:

If not every place is surviable or only surviable with specilized equipment, does that mean that if I get stuck on one of those planets my only hope is to have an eariler saved game?



Philosophically, I like a game to just kill me if I can''t progress further. Let''s say the game either rescues you by having some ally or neutral swoop in on your signal, or the game calculates whether or not you have the supplies and randomly sets a shelter down near you (out of site, of course).

Is it better for you to eventually know that you can never be hurt, but not have to save frequently, or is it better for the universe to just be what it is and you have to learn to survive in it?

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
You could give the captain "nine lives" or something, so if you wind up on a deserted world, with no supplies, no communications gear, and no transportation, you''ll slowly die of thirst, but a miracle will occur. You''ll be crawling over a sand dune, singing quietly in your madness, and then collapse. Then you wake up in the medical wing of the nearest space station, with one of your allies(see nemesis thread) looking over you. "That was a close one. We went to dig up some quaternary hydro-butyl alanine-3 and we wind up with a dried-up space captain! How do you feel?"

That might work a few times, or as long as you have a good enough friend in the mining/pirate/terraforming/military/whatever career to get you. You lose a month or so, take a temporary penalty to your strength and some of your skills (which can be recovered) and you lose your ship.

Better than perma-death, anyway.



This definitely could work, but if you''ve only got a small pool of friends it starts getting suspicious. Technically, though, you''re supposed to be in a recovering universe teaming with life, so it''s not unfeasible that you get rescued by first a friend, then a samaritan, then a survey ship, then a probe, yada yada yada...

What might also be interesting is that not all rescues might be good. You could get rescued by pirates or slavers, an enemy faction, or a race in the game that lives to bodyjack people.

Also, though it''s a bit cheesy, I like the idea of a clone bank. Every time you die, any clones you have on file get activated and you start out back home. The clone is only as good as the last time you updated him, and updating costs money. So you could restart with a deleveled character.



quote:

I guess the water system could be used as well, but it seems to me that two systems that do the same thing seem a little redundant (by definition). Maybe if you could get water into the "rationing system", and just have a commodity called "sustenance" that gives all the nutritive benefits of a home-cooked meal but doesn''t do anything for morale, since it tastes like cardboard stew. Think of the "Tasty Wheat" scene in The Matrix.



This is a good point, and I''m going to have to think carefully whether or not it''s all that interesting to have to search for both. I always ask "what are the interesting situations that arise from success or failure?" Food can be interesting, but there are only negative status effects like poisoning that I can see arising out of water, or problems with dehydration.

This is a good example of the gameplay / sim dichotomy, and having to pick which is best. I do like the idea that water gives you a seperate meter to balance, as in the Sims. But I don''t like how nitpicky it is. (It''s like the Bladder meter in the Sims, just an annoyance because it doesn''t yeild anything but ridiculous results on failure, and not terribly interesting to watch).

quote:

Actually acquiring water and food from different sources could be done, I suppose, but don''t get too technical here. Unless you want players to be retiring from spaceflight and enjoying an exremely complex game of "live on a mountaintop on mars".


What''s the matter, don''t you want to be shivering in artic wastes trying to convert your laser''s lense to a magnifying glass so you can have potable water? Yeah, I hear you, this is just an ajunct mode for veracity''s sake, and there only to give you a reason to role play through the motions.



--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:

quote:

Perhaps there could be hunger bar and thirst bar, they stay at zero as long as the player is able to eat at every day. If they can''t eat the bar begins to fill slowly, say 1% every 3 hours. Each food could have a hunger reduction stat, eating that food reduces the hunger bar by its hunger reduction stat. However hunger can only be reduced once every twelve hours, so eating a lot of food would only provide the reduction benefit of the food with highest reduction stat the rest is essentially wasted. The hunger bar would reduces all stats and skill by its propotinal to its current value. So if the play is 5% hungry and then all their stats and skills would be reduced by 5%.



The main trouble I see for you as a player is that you suddenly wouldn''t be able to achieve skills that are on a threshold, because of food. And if you were on the threshold of hunger itself, you''d have to wait a certain number of hours before you could fix the problem.

Am I misunderstanding you?



Why is that a problem? If the player is just in the threshold for success then little things would cause them to fail. They didn''t eat yesterday so there a little groggy and hungry and can''t concentrate as well.

Remember that this hunger bar only starts taking effect if they missed the last meal time. So if they are suffering from hungery then they can eat, if for whatever reason they can''t eat then their abilites will continue to degrade until they are able to eat. The bar doesn''t completely empty after each time you eat to represent malnutrition and other ailments. So if you didn''t eat for five days the bar would be at 40%, eating an able would reduce the bar to 35% percent and stop any futhur increase for another 12 hours.


If your really worried about people getting stranded on planets, why not use the nanites? Perhaps its standard produceure to install a nano distress beacon/identify in all travelers kind of like a high tech passport. It also has the second function of being a distress beacon that can be actived in case of emergancy and it transmits a signal to alert passing ships.

You could take it a step further and have it so that the department of stellar cartography places small nav/relay satilites in every system they chart. These satilites rebrodcast distress beacons at more powerful frequency, provide lost ships with new star charts and positional information.

-----------------------------------------------------
"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
quote:

The main trouble I see for you as a player is that you suddenly wouldn''t be able to achieve skills that are on a threshold, because of food. And if you were on the threshold of hunger itself, you''d have to wait a certain number of hours before you could fix the problem.


Why is that a problem? If the player is just in the threshold for success then little things would cause them to fail. They didn''t eat yesterday so there a little groggy and hungry and can''t concentrate as well.



Consider the case of an emergency, where the ship is dead in space, the reactor is leaking radiation, and life support is running low. If the problem itself isn''t time sensitive, then the player is just stuck waiting, which isn''t favorable in and of itself unless you can fast forward time. But if the problem is time sensitive, then the player now dies because they didn''t eat. While it works for the system, as a tale it''s not very heroic. It also doesn''t take into account the fact that people sharpen under danger.

Of course, I could add some mechanism by which all your skills go up in danger because of adrenaline and need, but do you see how this is now getting unweildy? It''s a mechanic to balance a mechanical flaw.

quote:

Remember that this hunger bar only starts taking effect if they missed the last meal time. So if they are suffering from hungery then they can eat, if for whatever reason they can''t eat then their abilites will continue to degrade until they are able to eat. The bar doesn''t completely empty after each time you eat to represent malnutrition and other ailments. So if you didn''t eat for five days the bar would be at 40%, eating an able would reduce the bar to 35% percent and stop any futhur increase for another 12 hours.



I see what you''re saying but I think this is too severe to be playable. OTOH, it would make players be DARNED sure to eat!


quote:

If your really worried about people getting stranded on planets, why not use the nanites? Perhaps its standard produceure to install a nano distress beacon/identify in all travelers kind of like a high tech passport. It also has the second function of being a distress beacon that can be actived in case of emergancy and it transmits a signal to alert passing ships.

You could take it a step further and have it so that the department of stellar cartography places small nav/relay satilites in every system they chart. These satilites rebrodcast distress beacons at more powerful frequency, provide lost ships with new star charts and positional information.



I like this idea in combination with the supply huts concept. That way, no matter what, the player can always get out of a jam.


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whats so hard about eating? If characters automatically eat as long as they have supplies and the player is notified when suppplies are low then they really have no exsuse for being taken off guard by the effect of prolonged hunger. Besides it will teach them a lesson and give the good story to tell.

Luke : "You where right Han I should have eaten dinner last night or at least breakfast this morning. But I really did come that close to destroying the deathstar."

-----------------------------------------------------
"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Advertisement