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# stupid teacher... (is this true??)

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high, my programming teacher (complete moron, i correct his mistakes in class on a daily basis), is telling me i should change my naming style from this: Class_Name { } Function_Name(); to this: className { } functionName(); hes telling me "dis is dah industree standud" (his accent). is this really the industry standard? or is he full of shit like usual? i think this way is very ugly and harder to read, also, is there even a industry standard for naming conventions? im thinking NO, and even if there is, wouldt it be this: Cxxxxxx you know, a C in front of the class names? ive seen a lot of people here post example code using this.. and if anything this makes more sence... but im pretty sure my teacher hasnt even heard of Cetc (ive literally taught this idiot more stuff about programming then i have learned in class.. ie how to use c_str().. also, he doesnt even know how to use the debugger or how to even find errors... one day in class he stared right at the "missing semicolon" for literally 20 minutes before i couldnt take it anymore.... my classmates are all struggling with learning the basics, so i feel dumber when i leave that class...

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the standards I learned are:
class ClassName {
private:
int mMember;
public:
ClassName();
~ClassName();
void someMethod();
};

It should have a usefull simple an dclear name.
same for methods though.

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There is no industry standard for this kind of thing. I''ve seen just about every combination of naming scheme imaginable in different companies. To get some idea of the different ways things like this can be specified you might want to look at this page.

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quote:
Original post by graveyard filla
my programming teacher (complete moron, i correct his mistakes in class on a daily basis)...
This is a bad habit. Stop it. Even if you know more, respect the position and authority of teacher and discuss with him outside/after the class - unless he defers to you.

quote:
hes telling me "dis is dah industree standud" (his accent). is this really the industry standard?
There is no industry standard. Camelcase (camelCase) is the recommendation for Java, but C++ has a heritage in old C programs where the underscore is used to separate words and all identifiers are completely lowercase (take a look at the standard library for proof).

Nevertheless, change it for his class. If you get a job at a company, they''ll give you a template you must conform to, so you might as well get used to following instructions you don''t necessarily agree with.

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Symbol naming schemes, as with indentation styles, are religious issues. There is no ''industry standard'' - though I believe that style is the Java ''standard'' style.

Just ignore him, but, whatever else you do, don''t use the "Hungarian Notation" - it is unadulterated evil.

“Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.”
— Brian W. Kernighan

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There is no "industry standard." Every company you work for will probably have their own coding format to which every programmer follows. In other words, be flexible with your style. As for your teacher, that is not uncommon among high school programming teachers. If the teachers were as good as they make you believe, they wouldn''t be teaching, they would be doing.

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quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
This is a bad habit. Stop it. Even if you know more, respect the position and authority of teacher and discuss with him outside/after the class - unless he defers to you.

yes but, have you ever had to sit in a programming class, where all the students were complete newbies, and so was the teacher? and the teacher just sits there, and EVERYDAY he teaches at least one BAD programming practise. he teaches bad practises all the time... everyday.. i usualyl just sit there and keep it to myself, angry about how crappy my school is... but sometimes i raise my hand and say "well professer, isnt it suposed to be like this..."

usually he will say "dats dee cuming attraktion".... but hes full of shit. there is no coming attraction. he will never bring it up again, or he will, but he will never correct himself.. its so irritating.. you guys really have no idea how bad my school is... my first semester of CIS, the teacher was even worse... the first day of us actually writing a c++ program (hello world), he couldnt get it to compile. yes, im not lying here people. my professor couldnt get a hello world program to compile. in fact, when he first started visual studio 6, he clicked on new-> c++ source, and named it "helloworld.h".. HE NAMED IT .H!!! a cpp file!! then, he tried writing the "hello world" program, but couldnt!! he was getting errors, and couldnt fix it!! HE ACTUALLY TOLD US TOMMOROW HE WOULD HAVE THE ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM!! IT TOOK US 2 DAYS IN CLASS TO EVEN GET HELLO WORLD TO COMPILE!!!!

(it was also my first time writing a c++ program, just like the rest of the class, and probably the teacher too. i honestly dont even think that teacher knew how to program... he read everything from the book and copied it on the board.. i remember him telling us "try to write nested if statements without a flow chart!! go ahead, you wont be able to do it!!!"

im sorry for the caps, but it really is something to scream about. im paying 5200$dollars a semester (same as harvard) and my teacher couldnt even write a hello world program... its sickening, really... [edited by - graveyard filla on May 18, 2004 6:31:34 PM] #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: ClassName { } functionName(); That''s what I use, but it''s entirely by personal preference. I capitalize the first letter of my ADTs just to differentiate them from those from any libraries I may be using. quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original post by graveyard filla my programming teacher (complete moron, i correct his mistakes in class on a daily basis)... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a bad habit. Stop it. Even if you know more, respect the position and authority of teacher and discuss with him outside/after the class - unless he defers to you. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hes telling me "dis is dah industree standud" (his accent). is this really the industry standard? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is no industry standard. Camelcase (camelCase) is the recommendation for Java, but C++ has a heritage in old C programs where the underscore is used to separate words and all identifiers are completely lowercase (take a look at the standard library for proof). Nevertheless, change it for his class. If you get a job at a company, they''ll give you a template you must conform to, so you might as well get used to following instructions you don''t necessarily agree with. I agree with this. When you find yourself in the company of a halfling and an ill-tempered Dragon, remember, you do not have to outrun the Dragon... #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites couple suggestions: assuming this is college: try to get permission to skip the intro class. you seem to know the basic stuff already, and if that's the case, it's a waste of your time. though the course books _always_ say that certain classes are pre-requisites for others, i've yet to find a department that won't let you skip classes if you make your case to the head of the department. if it's not actually possible for you to skip the class for whatever reason, the best you can do is just grin and bear it. who cares if what he's teaching is retarded (outside of the "i'm paying for this" thing... ), just get through the class and move on to the next one next semester. i've had classes like this, probably most of us have. the best you can do is get out of the class, the second best you can do is just take it. making enemies with a teacher is a good way for people in the department in general to start disliking you and then either giving you bad grades or not giving you breaks (like skipping classes for instance). and think of it as real world training. a decent percentage of managers are just like this teacher. certainly you'll at least have a co-worker like this. learning how to deal with it is the hardest thing i had to do coming out of college and not knowing how to deal with it gracefully very nearly got me fired in my first couple jobs. good luck. -me [edited by - Palidine on May 18, 2004 6:41:22 PM] #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by graveyard filla yes but, have you ever had to sit in a programming class, where all the students were complete newbies, and so was the teacher? No, I haven''t. I have been in a class where the majority of students were newbies (300-level), but the professor was excellent. He was also tough and fair. And on one day when the class failed to complete assignments and incurred his wrath, he walked out on us. That was the last time my classmates failed to complete an assignment. If your school''s so bad, transfer. There''s really nothing else to it, particularly at that price. I sympathize, but that doesn''t excuse the attitude. Rules are rules; institutions are institutions. If you''re unwilling to uphold the rules of the institution, leave. I''m not sure whether you''re in high school, in which case I''d recommend skipping programming classes entirely; I honestly think there''s no point. AP credit only gets you out of one or two classes anyway. Better to learn on your own at home and save the formal instruction for when you get to go to a good school. I did, and it was great. If you''re in college, transfer. Now! #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by graveyard filla yes but, have you ever had to sit in a programming class, where all the students were complete newbies, and so was the teacher? During my first (college) programming course (Turbo Pascal), the instructor said something that amounted to "I know, you don't, and I'm not here to teach you." - Right after that lab, I went down to the school's library, picked up a Pascal book, read it. Only talked to him once after that, defending my use of recursion (NOT IN THE CURRICULUM! FORBIDDEN! UNPREDICTABLE MEMORY USAGE!) to avoid having to write six "nth derivative" functions. Two years later, having entered an engineering school, we had to go all over the basics again (still in Pascal!) as, due to a change in the curriculum, not all of the students had been taught those basics. The instructors were competent, but the class was just as dull. Yes, the class was mandatory. No, you couldn't place out. Yes, attendance was taken (yes, in college). I have not written a single line of Pascal in the past six years. So, let me tell you, your horror stories aren't that exceptional. “Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.” — Brian W. Kernighan [edited by - Fruny on May 18, 2004 6:50:44 PM] #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Palidine ...think of it as real world training. a decent percentage of managers are just like this teacher. Good point. My college buddy in North Carolina got fired yesterday, by a boss just like this. While I empathize, I know him, and I know that he probably was less-than-tactful in rebuffing his supervisor. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites As someone who taught his highschool C++ class, I can sympathize with you. My programming teacher was great. Unfortunatly, she was not a programming teacher, she was a math teacher, and really did not have a clue what she was doing. Since you are paying intuition, you have a right to quality teaching. Theres little more you can do then grin and bear it, but at the same time it can''t hurt to take your case above his head. Incompetent teachers should not keep their jobs. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites All I can say is take it to higher powers that he''s actually useless, or bear with it, rules are rules, you signed up for them when you joined that college, and if you dont like them, either just bear it move along. My story: programming teacher who made us move rooms to the other side of the school because he couldn''t connect his laptop to the school network in that room (plugging in a cable is almost as difficult as rocket science, apparently) #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites Regardless of how good or not your teacher is, at the end of the day he''s the one that''ll be marking your work. So if he''s asking you to do things his way (especially when its something trivial like naming conventions) just jump though the damn hoop. You don''t want to give him excuses for him knocking off marks here and there that could easily be avoided. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Fruny ownage #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites My horror story: I once had a teacher who loved pseudo-code. He loved pseudo-code so much that he had us write EVERY function in pseudo-code(yes, even those int findMax(int a, int b)). Second problem, his pseudo-code language was a kind of basic hybrid, and it had strings and all sort of things, so we ended up writing pseudo code that used types and stuff that we couldn''t use at all in C. Some stuff was impossible to describe in any useful way with the pseudo-language, so 1 out of 2 functions ended up being only comments. (yes, this pseudo-language had comments.) Bottom line, bad teachers are everywhere, and you can''t fight them. Some gave you advice to try and get him fired... well I don''t know about where you live... but here it would be damn near impossible... so just bear with it. Paladine was right; Real World (tm) at its finest. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by xMcBaiNx pseudo-language And that would be?.... #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Oluseyi quote: Original post by Palidine ...think of it as real world training. a decent percentage of managers are just like this teacher. Good point. My college buddy in North Carolina got fired yesterday, by a boss just like this. While I empathize, I know him, and I know that he probably was less-than-tactful in rebuffing his supervisor. You''re the little n00b trying to make some headway into the world of programming. Someday, you''ll be the little replaceable employee and will be in the same position with your boss. Get used to it right now. You''re not the man: he is. There''s nothing you can do in your current position to change that, even if you''re right. I have a story that relates to this. Grab some popcorn... Computer science was eventually closed down at the public college I went to. There were ~25 students the first semester, then half the second, and half again the third, then 5. We ended up being 4 in the end for our last year. However, we were told we would still be allowed to complete our studies and would receive the same kind of education we would if the program would have remained open. And here, in Mooseland, studies programs are not standardised. We''re required to learn certain standards and competance points, but the means to get there can vary (ie, programming logic classes could be taught with Pascal in one college and Python the other). Given this, we all figured it would be best to stay anyways. Less of a hassle and we wouldn''t compromise ourselves. So the final year of computer science begins. We learn that there will only be 3 teachers to teach our 7 computer science courses that semester. Furthermore, to avoid paying a teacher to teach just one course, they gave us Psychology III (we were supposed to get some other psychology course for work relations and stuff). The psychology course was, obviously, beyond our level. Imagine this: four of us who had never taken Psychology I and II sitting among about 30 other students, all chuckling heartily at the teacher''s joke on some structure in the brain. After about a month of this, we got fed up and went to the guy responsible for the computer science studies program. After a few weeks of being tossed around, we end up being offered to take a long-distance course. It''s the only option he gave us: drop out of this one and take one by mail. Very satisfying. No amount of debating with him would amount to any other option. What about our other courses? He was teaching three of them that semester. The first was MS Project. A completely useless program that was so riddled with bugs we often had to find work-arounds around some of the program''s built-in features. The second was... actually, I don''t remember, heh. The third was PHP. This is where the crap REALLY hits the fan. First, we''re asked to buy a book that''s$80. Ok, that''s fine. Then, he sends us off to PHPDebutant.com, a PHP-for-n00bs website, and asks us to do the tutorials on it. WHILE HE DOES THEM HIMSELF WITH US! The guy did not know a lick of PHP and often deferred to us because he didn''t know how to do stuff! Not only that, once we were finished with PHPDebutant.com, he tells us to do the tutorials in the book. All in all, he did not, and could not, teach us anything and relied on the book the whole semester to make us work on stuff. Horrible. Absolutely horrible.

Last semester comes in. Because we had an internship, we only had two courses. And of course, two teachers. He was teaching the second PHP course.

Now, we had gone through the book and had exhausted the basic PHP tutorials on the web. Of course, he didn''t bother to learn more PHP over the course of the summer and, in fact, seems to have forgotten everything he knew from last semester. What does old fatso do for his course?

"Well, I want you guys to pick a project and do it in PHP." Yep! He''s not going to teach us anything: he''s asking us to work on a project. He didn''t even bother to work on some guidelines, he just gave our one-line ideas a quick look and that was that.

None of us showed up. Ever. We just went back home and relaxed instead of wasting time with his classes.

In the end, he only corrected our projects based on how they looked. He never gave the code so much as a glance. I did most of mine in javascript. Everyone voiced their opinion of him, his courses, and his competence very firmly. I felt there was no need to make it clear he was a dumbass and continued to treat him as though he was any other teacher.

I end up being refused at university because my grades weren''t high enough in relation to the class average. This is obvious: with all [u]four[/u] of us having roughly the same proficiencies, beating the average was absolutely impossible. Think about it: four students. How representative is that? Not one damn bit. University would have none of it.

The old fatso may be incompetant, but he''s got weight in these matters. I went to him with my problem and he gave me a semi-official letter explaining the issue. With it, university revised my case and lo and behold, I got accepted! All thanks to the most incompetant fat fuck the programming world has ever known!

The moral of this story? I dunno.

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quote:

We ended up being 4 in the end for our last year.

Looks like I beat you. In my class I was with 2 other students in the end.

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on the other hand...

when i was in art school (for a year), i got nailed up for all the mandatory beginner classes. Things i learned in the 8th grade... *ugh*

After suffering through the first semester of that, i went to the curriculum guidence women (very nice person BTW) with my case. I said "I already know all this stuff! Puhleeeease?"

She didn''t say anything. She just gave me the eyes-closed head shake. But I wouldn''t take no for an answer. It''s MY education. I''m paying some truly obscene amount of money for it, i''ll take the classes i WANT. So i offered a full portfolio of proof, letters from teachers, whatever it would take. I got up a full presentation of my case and i did finally skip my intro classes for some second-year classes (which i enjoyed very much).

moral: it doesn''t hurt to ask. And if you are paying for it, it doesn''t hurt to demand either.

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Sort of makes me glad I''ve never had the misfortune of taking a programming class yet...

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I am still in High school, my current programming teacher isn''t so great of a programmer either. but I don''t really care since I am not paying money for the class, I am getting 100 in the class anyway, so it''s pushing my average up for all the other classes I am slacking in.

Anyway, stories like the ones above are scaring me from going to college. I am afraid they make me buy a crappy book, or teach something that requires me to have Windows installed (.NET, ms powerpoint, etc).

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quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
If you're in college, transfer. Now!

yes, but that is the problem. where am i going to transfer to? im taking CIS, not CS. i cant find any colleges near me which have CIS programs... everything is CS.. i cant switch to CS because none of my credits will transfer and ill be screwed having to take a million general education courses to the point where i dont wanna be in school anymore.. i guess i have to just grin and bare it. i go to school year round (there is 3 trimesters a year), i only get a week off in between semesters....i havent even been going to school for a year yet and im already a sophmore... i should graduate in 2- 2 1/2 years or so...

also, its not just this one teacher. my entire school is filled with complete idiots. you couldnt understand.. its really a big joke... my other teacher CIS232 connectivity with lab... its mostly just linux administration and the basics of networking like protocols ip adressing OSI model electronics etc etc... anyway, the teacher is horrible. he comes to class with absolutley nothing.. he takes attendance by passing around a sheet of paper or just "remembering who ISNT there"... he washes the board with his fucking shirt sometimes.. hes the worst teacher i ever had, a total nerd (math phd) who knows everything about anything, but has the social and teaching skills of a 12 year old retard. the first test we took in the class, i got a 89, but the moron lost some of the students tests... so now that test doesnt count!! also, im pretty sure he lost our last exam too.. he handed out half the tests, said he forgot the others at home. the next time in class he gave the rest of the people BLANK tests to go over the exam, he said hell bring them in next time... he didnt show up to class yesterday.... this guy knows everything about anything, but just doesnt know how to teach... he just flys through millions of comlicated topics, and gives an exam every few weeks. the funny thing is my programming teachers have been the exact opposite, still crappy teachers, but will slowly cover topics over and over again because no one in the class understands any of it...

sorry for all the bitching, but this isnt work and im not some spoiled bitch who cant handle authority... i simply pay money out the ass to get taught by idiots.. usually i complain to my girlfriend but it feels better knowing theres people who understand how stupid these people are ... anyway, thanks for the rants, it made me feel better

[edited by - graveyard filla on May 19, 2004 2:52:31 AM]

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Re small class sizes: The Engineering Science program at UofT offers (or at least used to until very recently, not sure) an option for Environmental engineering after the second year (there are 8 or so options to choose from and this is/was one of them). In some years there was a single student taking that option, which did lead to class sizes of one for some courses. (They would of course have other courses that were also taken by other students for various reasons, this being university and all.)

Re attendance being taken in university - o___O I had no idea anyone still did that.

Anyway. My university horror story... hmm. Well, the 1st year course where they "taught" me C++ was pretty bad, but it pales in comparison to 4th year Software Engineering, so I''ll talk about that instead.

The course itself wasn''t that bad. The lecture material was easy enough to follow (if boring; and I would say I''ve learned more about good coding practices from, say, the c2.com wiki than from that course) and the prof was a charming older woman who actually had extensive field experience dating back to when COBOL and FORTRAN were common for business use (for writing new stuff, I mean.) Which is pretty cool, but it meant rather dated and biased material.

Basically, the course presented several development models, but only really went into any depth at all about Waterfall development; and then presented as fact a whole bunch of depressing statistics about real-world software development - a lot of which is, I''m sure, the consequence of trying to use Waterfall. :/

But I''m not here to complain about the professor, indeed she went out of her way to help me past the *really* bad part of the course - the TAs.

First off, we didn''t even have enough tutorial space booked at the beginning of the course. Due to various administrative difficulties, it was at least a couple weeks until we were all settled into tutorial rooms (involving some reshuffling). And the tutorial period itself was pretty much useless, anyway - it was only meaningful as meeting time, or time to ask questions about the assignment. (In case anyone can''t guess, the assignment would have been accurately described by a title like "How to Turn a One-Person Project into a Sixteen-Person Project, and Still Fail". Naturally, out of the marks for the whole assignment, less than 10% were for actually having working code at the end. The bulk of it was for the reports you had to write.) There were hardly ever any questions to ask about the lecture material, since it didn''t really involve any thinking or problem solving.

And then, the TAs.

By this point in my university career I was well accustomed to TAs who were pretty much completely incomprehensible whenever they attempted to speak English.

And it doesn''t bother me that much to have a TA who is utterly unable to keep order. It''s not as though he had anything important to say to us anyway.

And heck, I can deal with a TA who is a bit disorganized. Although it would be nice, if you go out of your way to talk to them individually, and write down your name, student number and email, that they might remember what your problem was - or even that there *was* a problem - the next week. Or that two TAs who alternate weeks looking after a section of students might actually show evidence of talking to each other.

But one of the two TAs I had was all three of those - and in case you''re wondering, the "problem" was that I hadn''t been assigned to a group. Despite repeated conversations with both TAs (although I place the blame mainly on the one I''m talking about now), this didn''t get resolved until after the first two (of 6) assignments had been handed in - and only with a great deal of intervention from the prof. In fact, at one point she suggested that I email all the TAs about the situation, all together, to see if any section had an opening. A couple TAs from other sections replied, but not the ones from my own section. And because of the two assignments having already been due, I had to make special arrangements with the prof for the second assignment (I had taken the initiative already to do the first one on time, to the best of my ability, given my situation). Meeting with her on my (our) own time.

And then I had to redo the first assignment anyway, because the TAs *lost* it. And the prof had to mark those two assignments herself, adjusting for the situation.

You must be thinking it can''t possibly get worse. One last bit of insult to injury, though. About a month before the end of term - shortly before the last assignment was due, along with submission of the actual program - the TA I''m complaining about *vanished*. Simply could not be reached. The prof had to go out of her way *again*, to talk to the administration and find a replacement for the last couple of weeks to look at the programs and mark the last assignment. Of course, the replacement had no idea what was going on, and we (the students) had to fill him in during the tutorial because he hadn''t been there for the rest of the course.

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