I''m a little confused on euler vs verlet integration;

// euler

foreach step {
	velocity += some stuff;
	position += velocity;
}

// verlet?

foreach step {
	velocity += some stuff;
	position += velocity;

	velocity = o - position
	o = position; // save position

}

As far as I can tell, this gives the EXACT same results, UNLESS you start explicitly start meddling with the position... Is any of this thinking correct?

there is no velocity in verlet, generally:

position = 2 * position - oldposition + acceleration * dt * dt;

and yes, you''re right, it gives the exact same results unless you fiddle with the position. It makes completely non-bouncy physics (balls that splat into a wall and fall down, or cloth simulations with rigid springs) much simpler. It makes more sophisticated physics more awkward. I use it for cloths and I was amazed how little time it took to implement for the first time (3 or 4 hours and I had cloth floating down over a sphere).

Ok, seems i got it right then :-) I was just suprised the two methods were just different ways of juggling the figures to the same result; but when collisions come into play (with direct positional changes) they will produce different results...

Oi! Yeah, i'm just googling and browsing my way thru stuff and coding what I think sounds most logical (and manage to understand) :-)

Some stuff bits looks something like this (pseudocode):

cmforce += spring forcescmforce += gravity * massvelocity += cmforce / masscmforce = 0

... all modified by timestep of course. Btw, I guess gravity could just be added to velocity, but this way looks more understandable - i'll optimize later :-)

[edited by - fenghus on May 28, 2004 3:52:18 AM]

This message is for Squirm. I am using Verlet to simulate cloth. I have some implementation questions for you about cloth in general. How do you recommend handling the folding of cloth? I ask this because I have linear spring interactions where a radius of interaction determines which nodes are a given node''s neighbor. The problem is if two nodes that aren''t neighbors are close there is nothing to repel them in the force calculations.
Any suggestions?
Thanks

So, if your cloth folds over it passes through itself...? A search term for google would be "self intersecting cloth", though I haven''t looked myself yet.
I do have that problem. Mostly it isn''t bothering me since I have avoided situations that cause it. Another thing I have is an alternative constraint. This isn''t something I''ve picked up off the net - it is just the solution that occurred to me:

Normally, your constraint would attempt to fix the distance between two nodes in the cloth. By adding constraints which only fix the distance if it is less than the minimum you effectively get a sphere around each node into which others can''t pass.

Instead of:
CalculateDistance();
FixDistance();
do:
CalculateDistance();
if(DistanceLessThanMinimum)
FixDistance();

You can also do cloth-sphere collision detection/response using this, which is nice and easy if the thing wearing the cloth looks like a bunch of spheres

To be perfect, that system would require every single node to have such a constraint to every other node, which would be expensive. It also requires a whole heap of if statements. In my case, only those just beyond the range of the normal spring constraints have them, and it seems to be working with only the occasionaly snag.

There is probably a more efficient solution from the realm of collision detection in general - I went for keeping it simple unless it turns out to be a bottleneck.