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# Using opensource 3d engines for your games

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If I were you, I''d check out www.3dengines.net

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I played more with Q1 sources and i found the code easy to modify. In one night i added simple shadows (it had shadow support but it was ruined by bugs and was disabled by default - i just fixed most of them) and rewrote the part that renders the particles in order to be more natural (point particles doesn't look good anymore :->).

I'll work with that one until i find a better engine. There are very good engines (and a lot better than Q1's) but most of them lacks something essential (f.e. sound, a map format, tools or something...).

@simhau:
Wow, i was thinking that the 3d engines list was died! Thanks for the link :-)

@Anonymous Poster:
Quake1/2 engines have been used :-)
Okay, the fact that there are no known games that uses opensource engines means nothing. Fame is a matter of marketing and *many* good games remain unknown because of poor marketing.

@Clueless:
Yea, Neoengine seems very good. However, as you said, audio is not there and i wasn't actually able to find a list with the features the engine has (looked at the docs at the site and made a search for 'features' but found nothing).

[edited by - badsector on May 28, 2004 12:37:24 PM]

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commercial games made with the genesis3d opensource engine

FDNY FIREFIGHTER: AMERICAN HERO
dragon''s layer 3d
Barbie Gotta Groove

what''s really funny is that these are the WORST games made with the genesis3d engine, all the good ones never went commercial

___________________
-Nicholas Anton, Owner RaptorTech

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quote:
I played more with Q1 sources and i found the code easy to modify. In one night i added simple shadows (it had shadow support but it was ruined by bugs and was disabled by default - i just fixed most of them) and rewrote the part that renders the particles in order to be more natural (point particles doesn''t look good anymore :->.

I thought that you could still be liable for licencing fees even for quake 1, at least if you don''t release under an OSS license.

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I made some modifications to the Quake 1 engine and i''m going to release it for testing. I took a part of Quake1''s source code (namenly the Windows and the Linux/X11 OpenGL part) which, compressed is around 700KB. I think that a download which is around 800KB is not a problem - so i''ll be GPL-correct since my release will include the modified source code that is required to build BSQuake -btw, original name for my mod engine, don''t you think :->>>

@AP:
Quake1''s source code is licensed under the terms of GNU GPL, which says that you can it for commercial purposes, as long as you release the source code. It says so in the GPL and in the readme file written by J. Carmack that comes with the source code (he actually suggests for commercial usages to use the GPLd engine instead of licensing a closed-source version).

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Uh, if you''re happy using Quake 1 engine, why not switch to Quake 2? IIRC the source is released under the same license, and the actual structure is nigh on identical (at least from a modding point of view). Coloured lighting and a proper OpenGL renderer alone would be enough to convince me to switch.

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The Irrlicht engine is released under the zlib license - essentially meaning you can do whatever you want with it. The license does not even require you mention you used the engine if you created a closed source commercial game with it, however that would be rather lame.

As far as quality I cannot comment much. I have been using it as a learning tool and it seems well designed and efficient. If it matters to you, it is cross platform.

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@PouyaCatnip:
It''s real that Quake2 has some stuff that would convice me to use it (yes i have Q2''s sources too). I saw the sourcecode of Q2 and it seems to be a little more structured. However it seems to be a little more... more.

Quake1 has a proper (define ''proper'' however :-) OpenGL renderer. To be precise, i use only the OpenGL code and i throwed away the software and the 3DFX code.

Better lighting (colored lights, dark lights, etc) is a plus (and some other extensions that Quake2 has over Quake1), but is a matter of 1-2 daywork to make Quake1 support colored lights and it already has dark lights (you just have to remove a #ifdef QUAKE2...).

Lastly Quake1 seems very simple.

However Quake2 has lots of tools floating around the internet and is considered more "famous" in general. Half-Life made this :-). Unfortunatelly HL is not that binary-compatible with Q2 and Q2''s tools aren''t under GPL :-/.

I don''t know, i''ll give a shot to Quake2 too. Unfortunatelly, however, i do not have Quake2''s datafiles so i''ll have to dig through my 1998 magazine CDs in order to find a shareware (downloading it is not an option due to bandwidth, time and storage space limitations :-).

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Irrlicht is a *very* good and a *very* easy 3D engine. Unfortunatelly is just that: a 3d engine.

While i could use OpenAL for sound, my NerveBreak scripting engine for scripting and other stuff, i''ll still have to invest time on reinventing the wheel in a case where time matters.

And again, i don''t have the required datafiles for creating content for irrlicht (namenly Quake3 datafiles for making .bsp maps).

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If you think the Quake I engine is outdates, you can always use tenebrae to bring it up to par (at least graphics-wise)

Tenebrae homepage
Tenebrae screenshots

-Luctus
..I''m also moronophobic
[Mail]

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I know tenebrae and the problem with that engine is that it''s too "up to date". Actually it''s "oldness" is a negative number (looks to the future). I have a AMD64 3200+, GeForceFX 5950Ultra, 512MB Ram, etc and even with this computer the average framerate is around 15-20fps (choppy).

My prelastnight work: http://bsqme.bsector.cjb.net/
I spent lastnight trying to fix a bug with the Linux version. It seems that KDE doesn''t send correct events to GLQuake. When i run GLQuake alone or under TWM everything is ok (GNOME not tested since i don''t have it).

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i''d go for the NeoEngine, it''s a good and fast game-engine.

it''s now on 0.8.1 and it will be finished this year.

OpenFrag is using this engine too, if you decide to use this one, they could help you with problems you might get with it. Within a week the 4th OpenFrag TechDemo will be released, so if you are interested, take a look at it.

OpenFrag: http://www.openfrag.org
NeoEngine: http://www.neoengine.org
ODE (physics) http://www.ode.org
FMOD (sound) http://www.fmod.org

open-sourced fraggin'' - www.openfrag.org

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IMO, use a glp source and make your game. You should not worry about it, since your art and ideia will belong to YOU! Then it doesnt matter if engine is public etc etc. And its healthy, check linux! More and more people work together to make something even better.
I think nobody here has the last name carmack.So, release your code, sell the art and ideia, and somebody else can make an even better game using your work. Then he releases a better and so on...

Someday we will break the iD!!! bwehahahahaaha X)

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
IMO, use a glp source and make your game. You should not worry about it, since your art and ideia will belong to YOU! Then it doesnt matter if engine is public etc etc. And its healthy, check linux! More and more people work together to make something even better.
I think nobody here has the last name carmack.So, release your code, sell the art and ideia, and somebody else can make an even better game using your work. Then he releases a better and so on...

Someday we will break the iD!!! bwehahahahaaha X)

Wow. For one, there's a big difference between an operating system and a game. The analogy with linux is not a fair one. With game source, people can more easily hack/cheat your game.

I don't worship Carmack, or hold him up as a god, or anything; but why pick on him? He's in favor of sharing source (he has released his Quake 1, Quake 2, Doom source, hasn't he?), he just has to make a buck. Thus, he can't release his newest, greatest, and least legible code.

[edited by - MikeMJH on May 30, 2004 8:51:54 PM]

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The anonymous guy has a point. And IFASS too.
Just write a sound module for NeoEngine and make it public!
:-p

There is an optional DirectSound module afaik.
I guess it should be possible to base a new module on that one!?

It sounds to me as if NeoEngine is Low Level AND up to date enough for your needs.
Maybe you can use a sound library that does not depend on NeoEngine!?
Improving Quake 1 sounds a lot harder IMO.

Btw: "No page to display" ( http://bsqme.bsector.cjb.net/ )
Am I the only one who can''t see it?

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I''ll check again NeoEngine.

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as mentioned already in my post (maybe not clear enough) you could use the FMOD in combination with NeoEngine, OpenFrag uses it too, and i must say, the sound is amazing.

for networking, we use the OpenTNL (www.opentnl.org) it''s a award winning networking engine, known from the Tribes serie.
If you want to see this 2 engines working with the NeoEngine, for the FMOD you can take a look at the TechDemo 4 and for the Networking engine, that will be available in the 5th TD.

However, if you decide to use the NE, oF is always willing to help you and the support from the NE is also very good.

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