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Turn based war games

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I was curious how many still like the old DOS turn-based style games. In particular my favorite game of all time was Warlords. It was a DOS turn based fantasy war game. It is IMHO one of the classics of all time. Then of course there is Civilization, one of the best games ever created. I know Final Fanstasy was turn based ( I think ) but I never played it. I know it has a huge following though. I am sort of tired of the RTS game genre and want to get back to the roots again. Age of Mythology was a great game but the AI is terrible. Play aggressive and the AI is smoked in about 5 minutes. Only Titan level is challenging because I **know** it cheats. Age of Empires 2 was way harder. I think game companies are trying to make it more appealing to newer players lately or to make it easy to win. The thing with Warlords was it was extremely challenging. It might have been due to a really bad random number generator I think.. Peace->out

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Warlords IV is out if you want that. In general I avoid TBS games as they tend to get overbloated with complexity and features. RTS games have to stay simple, as if they got too complicated you wouldn''t be able to play for all the shit happening at once. TBS games get as complex as the designer wants, and before long you have Orion 3.

X-Com is still the best TBS tho. Recently TBS has been getting more press in the console world though, with Advanced Wars for the GBA and Final Fantasy Tactics for the PS1. Pleasant and reasonably simple TBS games.

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I used to love those games although I''m not familiar with the ones you mentioned. I played tbs a on c-64 (SSI and Avalon Hill). You should try the Avernmum series from Spiderwebsoftware I LOVE THAT BATTLE SYSTEM . They''re shareware rpgs that rock.

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I agree, some of the TBS games I have played were a bit too complicated.

Warlords 1 was extremely simple really. I think that is a part of what was appealing about it and why it was very addictive.

X-Com! Haha, I forgot about that one. Good game.

Hmm, well, my taste is just changing for the moment, yah know, you play some game in the genre for a bit and after a while you get bored and want to go play something else. I find that happens to me anyways, I get a mad urge every year or so to fire up Quake 2 or Doom or whatever and go through the whole thing in a night or something :-)

peace

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quote:
Original post by nonnus29
I used to love those games although I''m not familiar with the ones you mentioned. I played tbs a on c-64 (SSI and Avalon Hill). You should try the Avernmum series from Spiderwebsoftware I LOVE THAT BATTLE SYSTEM . They''re shareware rpgs that rock.


hehe, yep, I played many on the C64 and Atari systems. I still remember the music to Ultima 3, and the demons at the gate to the secret city hehe...

Which makes me think.. you know.. I remember back then, I never really thought that my Atari, C64, Amiga, Atari ST were slow. Did you ever notice? Did you ever think they were slow? I never had a problem at all until I went into the Intel architectures and the never ending upgrade cycle.



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Well, anyways, as a note, that yes, the C64 and Atari 8-bit games were very limited by today''s standards, they did very little really, but still I never thought to myself the machine was too slow. In fact it never really occured to me that there was a need for something faster at the time.

Which amazes me because I remember playing nearly 3d games on the C64 which, not quite like Doom, but very much like Wolfenstein. One of them was a game in a dungeon, I can''t remember the name, but it had a bar and grill in there with the beatles name on it or something, grrr, I can''t remember. But anyways, it was 3-d quite alot like Castel wolfenstein (the original) was. But it took nearly 5 more years to get the crappy PC to be able to compete with what the C64 already was able to do (and the Atari 8-bit).

Hmm.

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thinking about it i just realized how i never cared about games like battle isle or panzer general, but loved x-com and jagged alliance. there''s not a huge difference, except the latter are more flexible in terms of how your units "look" like (skill and weapon wise).

just went back to work on one along the same lines in the shadowrun universe (but seeing how microsoft is sitting on the license and not doing cr.. with it i''ll probably drop cyberware and not call it shadowrun). feature creep is my enemy, as many things id like to add might make the interface ugly and uncomfortable (like shooting two weapons at once, using different fire modes and the option to "layer" commands (like queueing in rts, just that they happen at the same time, ie. shooting while moving).

btw. playing chaos league i realized how you can screw up a game by doing just one thing wrong. it is just SO obviously blood bowl that i had to play the demo and tried hard to like it, but
managing 9 players in real time is too hectic for me (doesnt really allow any neat strategies). turn based mode is a joke (every 5 seconds you get 10 or more seconds to issue commands while the game is paused). i havent found ways to abort the 10 seconds (if you dont want to give commands its plain annoying) and you cant force giving commands (watching a perfect pass just to have the receiver run straight into a blocker that suddenly showed up because you cant change the orders for the next 3 seconds is frustrating).

it could have been so simple if you could just pause at any time to give commands like other games do it since baldurs gate. they probably wanted it to work in multiplayer and ended up with a single player thats just absolutely no fun.

what i basically mean is: give me more decent turn based team games like jagged alliance. they appeal to the rpg player in me by increasing the members skills or hunt for better equipment and at the same time allow for more flexible strategies.

silent storm would have been great if it wasnt for the hightech stuff ruining the atmosphere for me. so many cool moments like throwing a grenade out the window and having the explosion blow the enemy through the closed window right next to you or blowing away whole parts of a building (just to avoid going all the way around to the stairs).

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Tactics Ogre, for the PS1, is also a pretty fun tactical RPG (with a couple annoying quirks, like the text boxes which pop up in the middle of some commands, and some glaringly obnoxious spelling mistakes; ever see someone write "Designation" when they mean "Destination"?) If you want to go further oldschool, try the Shining Force ones on the Sega Genesis/Master; very simple but enjoyable battle system.

And no, my Atari 520ST was never "slow". Even playing a full-screen top-down shooter at 256 colors, 320x200 pixels, 20+ FPS, with 10 huge completely unique levels, all packed onto a 1440kB floppy. On a what, 10 or 12 MHz Motorola 68K processor, right?

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Well, let''s not forget Front Mission 4 for the PS2. It''s not out yet but is on it''s way. But yeah I love turn based games. Lords of the Realm II is still one of my favorites. The old Dragon Warrior games for the NES still hold a place in my heart and I''m glad that the upcoming Dragon Warrior VIII is still keeping the turnbased mechanics.


--------------------------------------
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"
- Liber AL Vel Legis

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quote:
Original post by Wyrframe
And no, my Atari 520ST was never "slow". Even playing a full-screen top-down shooter at 256 colors, 320x200 pixels, 20+ FPS, with 10 huge completely unique levels, all packed onto a 1440kB floppy. On a what, 10 or 12 MHz Motorola 68K processor, right?


I sort of schizo''d the thread, but it is true, I never thought my Commodores and Ataris were slow. Back then people knew how to program :-) I think Windows loop looks like this :-

while(1)
{
do_something();
sleep(10000);
do_a_little_more();
sleep(10000);
stop_all_multithreading_for_a_wee_bit();
do_some_more();
if(random() == MAGIC_LULU) blue_screen_of_death();
}

Granted, Win2000 and XP are way better than the old Win95...

Anyways, I''ve had the itch to play some hard core tactical turn based games lately, I have to find my X-com disks and see if I can get it to work on my Win98 box.

Peace->out

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Galactic Civilizations is another recent commercial turn based strategy game, a fun one as well.

Stars! is my favorite, though Alpha Centauri is a close runner up. Somehow I never bought civ3... have to rectify that some time.

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Comparing the performance of a multi-purpose operating system to a single-purpose piece of hardware is hardly fair, but that''s beside the point.

Data size is not relevant for program size. The Unreal 2 executable is only about 400KB. Hardly huge. It''s the textures, sounds, and map data that take up the majority of space in modern games.

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quote:
Original post by Etnu
The Unreal 2 executable is only about 400KB. Hardly huge.


The Unreal Warfare engine uses lots of external DLL files and scripts, so the total size of compiled data is much more than 400kb. I get your point, though.

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Anyone remember Wizard''s Crown on the Apple ][? That got me hooked on turn based games

While not strictly turn based, a game that I found to have a great atmosphere in the same way that XCom and JA had, was Fallout Tactics. One of the few games that I''d compare to the greats like XCom and JA.

I found the AI in the Silent Storm demo to run very slowly. This is with a P4 3.0 + geforce 4 + 1Gb PC-3200 RAM + RAID 0... Anyone know if the full version runs better than the demo? I''m hoping the demo was a debug version with loads of asserts in it (or something along these lines).

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quote:
Original post by Etnu
Comparing the performance of a multi-purpose operating system to a single-purpose piece of hardware is hardly fair, but that''s beside the point.



Atari and Amiga''s were not single-purpose hardware, they were general purpose computers. Yep, they were designed with games in mind, and had hardware built into it for sprites and things, but you could easily run a spreadsheet or word processor on one as well as games.

I am bashing WinTel because, IMHO, it is one of the most elbaorate and well paid out scams in the history of the world to come to fruition. IBM got the ball rolling and Bill Gates led the way to world domination.

I would gladly buy an Amiga today if they were still marketed. I hate PCs, they are terrible and I do not feel anything personal about them or Windows. Linux is nice but it''s just way to big.

But I am getting away from the purpose of the post, I was talking about turn based games, not trolling for arguments. It is just that most of the turn based games I fondly remember were on my Atari and Amiga.

Oi ve.

Peace->out

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Come now, nobody here liked Master of Orion or Master of Magic? Those are two TBS games I''m STILL addicted to.

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quote:
Original post by JeffF I never bought civ3... have to rectify that some time.


Don''t bother

No, really. After CivNET, I was pretty disappointed with Civ3. My biggest problem is the "special resources" concept that pretty much kills you when you''re getting to the musketeers and don''t have any salpeter when the (#expletive_deleted#) french are knocking. Afterall, it''s not much of an improvement over the first one and has a way less flexible interface than CivNET (granted, CN was an ugly MFC-based hack, but you actually saw what was happening).

Oh, yes: it actually had a working multiplayer mode out of the box! For singleplayer strategy, I''d guggest Galactic Civilizations. It''s reasonably balanced, has good AI with an attitude that doesn''t make you punch the screen while yelling "DIE YOU FRENCH WENCH!" three turns into a game, has no copy-control (at least in the online version, the German distributor decided he''d be an a$$) and nice gameflow.

I guess it''s a thing of overdevelopment vs. balanced self-limitation.

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If you like anime with big robots, try finding a copy of any
Super Robot Taisen(Wars) game.

It''s a bit like Advance Wars only featuring Gundams, Veritechs,
EVA units and more. Great and fun little games if you can find
a translation.

Highly recommend Super Robot Wars Alpha(and Alpha Gaiden) for the
PS1. Fun times.

-Hyatus
"da da da"

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