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I reacently got a copy of linux mandrake and I started exploring The main thing that I liked about linux that i liked is - tons of free software !! Buth then i checkd the net and I realized that many people use linux for game developing ?? Whis does not make any sense to me so I am asking you : 1) If you use linux for Game Developing Why is that ? 2) Isn''t the main principal of linux free software and games are the one of mayor profit''s in development (this is my motivation to learn Game Developing), so does this means if I make a game for Linux that i can''t sell it 3) How do you make an instalation on linux (simple example) ?? (I am only using linux for a week and as far as I realize runing external app''s is not yust dubleclick like in windows - this is bad )

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quote:
Original post by Red Drake
1) If you use linux for Game Developing Why is that ?



Many available tools like profilers, debuggers, etc. I like the way I can customize my desktop, I just find it easier to use. This is just a personal preference. Others on our team feel more comfortable with Windows and use that. It''s all about what makes you the most effective. For some it''s Windows, for others it''s some flavour of Unix.

quote:

2) Isn''t the main principal of linux free software and games are the one of mayor profit''s in development (this is my motivation to learn Game Developing), so does this means if I make a game for Linux that i can''t sell it



Not at all. If you write the source code it''s yours and you can do whatever you want with it. Sell it, license it, whatever. Many people in the Linux community release their source code for free for several reasons. 1) To place new knowledge into the general public. 2) To provide other people with useful software 3)To let others improve and enhance it. 4) To stick it to the Man


quote:

3) How do you make an instalation on linux (simple example) ?? (I am only using linux for a week and as far as I realize runing external app''s is not yust dubleclick like in windows - this is bad )




There are several different ways. The most basic is to just provide a big tar ball with all the source code and the user downloads that and just does:

./configure
make
make install

But each distro usually has it''s own package formats like Redhat''s RPM system or gentoo''s emerge system. You can also just provide binaries.


-------
Andrew
PlaneShift - A MMORPG in development.

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Note: Mandrake is good

1) It isnt so hard to do multiplatform engine and game servers run mainly on Linux because of stability + performance, most people will still use Win32 client but why dont you just release recompilation of your software? :-)
2) There are some apps for Unix that are comercial, so you can develop commercial apps for Linux too
3) Linux is mainly command-line system, I would suggest you some graphical interface (like Gnome)

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quote:
Original post by Red Drake

Buth then i checkd the net and I realized that many people use linux for game developing ??
Whis does not make any sense to me [...]

Why not?

quote:
so I am asking you :
1) If you use linux for Game Developing Why is that ?


Why not? There are tons of free editors and development tools for myriad languages, and wonderful cross-platform libraries like SDL and OpenGL.

quote:

2) Isn''t the main principal of linux free software and games are the one of mayor profit''s in development (this is my motivation to learn Game Developing), so does this means if I make a game for Linux that i can''t sell it

I''d like to tell you that you are wrong, but sadly it is true that the market for commercial (closed-source?) games for Linux is a small one, and it appears that many companies that make the attempt go under. There''s nothing wrong with selling games for Linux (just bear licences in mind when using third-party library: Use GPL''ed libraries and you must release your source; use LGPL''ed libraries and you must link dynamically against them or release your source), and it is not the case that there are no buyers (I would happily buy games for Linux rather than Windows -- fewer reboots are a good thing -- and have recently bought at least one), but it is true that there are a lot of free software zealots in the Linux world who find the concept of non-free software offensive and are highly unlikely to pay.

Hopefully this situation will change.

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"Buth then i checkd the net and I realized that many people use linux for game developing ??
This does not make any sense to me [...]"


Why not?

Becouse as far as I hawe seen it linux isn''t much of a OS for makeing mony - if you use your computer for hoby it''s ok buth I haw not seen any comertial game for linux.

P.S.
I asked around abou linux and everybody said it is stabile - buth on my computer ??
I run an app and do somthing (move mouse to much, pres keys) and it loads and loads for ever and I cant stop it.
I hawe Athlon XP 1800 and TNT2 32 MB (Crap), 256 mb ... and every OpenGL app on linux goes like 2 FPS or so, and on my friend 333 celeron it goes like 120/130 fps (Voodoo 3). Why ??

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quote:
Original post by Red Drake
"Buth then i checkd the net and I realized that many people use linux for game developing ??
This does not make any sense to me [...]"


Why not?

Becouse as far as I hawe seen it linux isn''t much of a OS for makeing mony - if you use your computer for hoby it''s ok buth I haw not seen any comertial game for linux.



That is one of the Catch-22''s for Linux. Nobody makes games for it because it''s not popular enough, it''s not popular enough because there are not enough games for it. I would suggest sticking with Windows if you are only concerned about making money.

----------
Andrew

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quote:
Original post by Red Drake
1) If you use linux for Game Developing Why is that ?



Because I use Linux for many other things, I then don''t have to change machine or reboot.

quote:

2) Isn''t the main principal of linux free software and games are the one of mayor profit''s in development (this is my motivation to learn Game Developing), so does this means if I make a game for Linux that i can''t sell it



Not at all. Linux does not have a "main principle". It is a general purpose operating system (some would argue, a lot more "general purpose" than Windows)

quote:

3) How do you make an instalation on linux (simple example) ?? (I am only using linux for a week and as far as I realize runing external app''s is not yust dubleclick like in windows - this is bad )


I don''t understand.

A lot of commercial / closed-source software ships with an installer, RPM packages, or both.

Typical methods are to either just make a .tar.gz (or self extractor) containing your files, and let the user put them where they want, or to ship RPMs.

Shipping RPMs is fine, but users of other distros (i.e. that don''t use RPM) find it inconvenient.

To be quite honest though, most of the closed-source software I''ve installed (including commercial games) has been packed as an archive containing binaries.

Commercial / closed source games and apps I''ve got or have had on my Linux:

Unreal Tournament
Triptych
Pontifex II

Flash player
Real player
Oracle
Sybase
various other things (can''t remember now)

Mark

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The thing that I meant with instaling the program is :
Is there an file type for linux that works like exe
I hawe not been able to run any of my windows (compiled but cros platform i think) app''s - and the only app''s I can run are the instaled ones (with linux instalation)

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Then how can I run it ??
I double click on it (any exe file) and i get the window titled Open with ... or somthing like that
And does anybody hawe a clue on the FPS problem that I mentiond ??
I read somthing on AMD''s site about AGP bug on linux with atlon XP buth how to fix it ??

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quote:

Becouse as far as I hawe seen it linux isn''t much of a OS for makeing mony - if you use your computer for hoby it''s ok buth I haw not seen any comertial game for linux.


You can develop a game on linux and just sell it for windows. It''s a lot of trouble releasing games on linux because of incompatibilities, such as machine incompatibilities--linux can run on mac''s and many other non-x86 architectures, and library compatibilities.
quote:

I hawe not been able to run any of my windows (compiled but cros platform i think) app''s - and the only app''s I can run are the instaled ones (with linux instalation)


Linux has no way of running Windows PE files without using some other tool, such as Wine.
quote:

P.S.
I asked around abou linux and everybody said it is stabile - buth on my computer ??
I run an app and do somthing (move mouse to much, pres keys) and it loads and loads for ever and I cant stop it.
I hawe Athlon XP 1800 and TNT2 32 MB (Crap), 256 mb ... and every OpenGL app on linux goes like 2 FPS or so, and on my friend 333 celeron it goes like 120/130 fps (Voodoo 3). Why ??


The linux kernel is stable, the apps that run on it might or might not be stable depending on what they are or who made them. For example, if an app stalls all you have to do is open up a terminal, do a ps -A, find out the process number for the thing that stalled, and do a simple kill #. If X stalls then just type Ctrl-Alt-Backspace. The problem for the slow speed is that you probably are running the software version of OpenGL.

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"The problem for the slow speed is that you probably are running the software version of OpenGL."

How do I get hardvare inmplementation of OpenGL?? (buth even if it is softvare don''t you think that simple 2D game with planes woud go more than 2/1 FPS , after all I do hawe 1500 MHz ??)

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To run a program file on Linux you usually have to set the permissions of a file to executable. Linux does not use file extensions to identify files that can or cannot be executed, you have to set the file permission to execute. I am not going to explain this here but just type it in to Google and you find out all about it. To run most programs open up a console window and when in the programs directory type ./[program name] eg:

#./quake

On KDE you can also right click on the desktop and use the "Create New -> Link To Application" if you prefer graphical method. This allows you to browse the filesystem and choose an Application much like a shortcut in windows.

Your problem with OpenGL is that it is using software rendering because it has not been properly set up. NVidia has drivers for Linux available on their website, but they must be installed in console mode without XFree86/KDE running at all. It''s not the AGP bug. I have Linux running perfectly on an Athlon XP with games running at a decent speed.

Mandrake is an excellent Linux diatro to learn on. I suggest you get yourself a good begginer''s book about Linux, that helped me a lot. Don''t give up, you''ll find things so easy in a week or two!

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Thank''s four your help (all of you).

You know I hawe yust noticed a diference betwen the Windows user and linux.
When I first started using my computer (about 3 years ago) I tried and tried to figure out using a simple programs. When I asked sombody to tutor me he said "How much will you pay me ?? " and "These things do cost you know". Now I know a lithel more about computers But I know crap about linux .
So I have noticed that linux comunity is much more open than windows
I mean i hawe got free tutorials & help on drivers for FREE.
Once again thanks
P.S.
Sory about gramatical errors

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quote:

some would argue, a lot more "general purpose" than Windows



Windows isn''t intended to be a general purpose OS, so anyone who would argue would be silly. Windows (9x, 2k, XP) are desktop operating systems. Windows 2k / 2k3 Server are server OSes, Windows CE is a mobile OS, and Windows Media Center Edition is an OS for consumer electronics devices.

But anyway.

No, there''s no commercial value in Linux games. There is commercial value in Linux servers (mainly in "saving money so that you don''t have to run your own"), and porting isn''t nearly as tough a task as some people make it out to be. Linux and Windows aren''t *THAT* different, when it comes down to it. Linux is more or less derived from Unix, and Windows borrows heavily from many Unix concepts. A well-written program should be able to easily move from a windows machine to a linux machine without changing more than 5% of the code.

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quote:
Original post by acraig
I would suggest sticking with Windows if you are only concerned about making money.


Oh, you can very well make good money using Linux. We are using Linux as development OS since day one, natively and cross-compiling to Windows and Mac OS-X. We have developed a powerful inhouse IDE and RAD suite (something inbetween Eclipse and the MSVC IDE, we are currently considering to open source it), and are very happy with the choice.

One of our bestselling software is around $16k per license, over 30% of our customers ask for the Linux version. Interestingly, it seems to be culturally influenced: US customers are almost entirely Windows based. European customers are, I''d say 70/30 in favour of Windows a couple of years ago, and now around 50/50. More towards the east, we get a surprisingly high percentage of inquiries for Linux or FreeBSD versions.

So yeah, you can actually make money using and selling for Linux. Those figures are not useable for the video game market though, I don''t know if Linux is really the appropriate target OS for the gaming community anyway. BeOS would have been a perfect candidate, *sigh*.

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