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Improving the fighting game.

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I have jotted down some ideas on things that I think would work well with a fighting game. When I wrote it I was thinking about a game that is 3d, players carry a one handed sword, there different items you get (such as swords that are different weights and lengths), and there is a leveling system. Allmost like a fighting/RPG hybrid. Most of the stuff can be applied to different things but I figure it probably helps that I tell you. _____________________________Stats_______________________________ Strength: Strength comes in two catagories, right arm strangth and left arm strength. Stregth effects your force rating, the higher your force rating the more you will be able to overpower your opponent, and the more damage it will do with a hit. Also if you have alot of force coompared to your opponent then blocking their hits will be very easy and won't hinder you much. Toughness: Toughness effects how much damage you will take from hits. Sombody who is not very tough will damage very easily, but sombody who is very tough will be able to take a few hard blows before the damage becomes critical. Speed: Speed come in three catagories, moving speed, swinging speed, and recovery speed. Moving speed effects how fast your charecter is able to move. Swing speed effects how fast you are able to move around your sword. This includes while you are swinging and getting your sword back into position after a swing. Recovery speed is how long it takes you to get back into position if you have been hit, blocked a hit, or were knocked backwards by a hit. _________________________Damage system___________________________ Screw the damage bar it is far to basic. The damage would be represented by the outline on a body. This would be divided into six sections: head, torso, right arm, left arm, right leg, left leg. The damage to these parts of the body are in percents and represented by a color (possibly different one every 10 percent, the traditional fade from bright green to dark red). Injuries to the different parts of the body would result in various effects. Injuries to either arm would reduce the force of that arm (basically weaken it). Leg injuries would slow you down, uneven injuries would give you a limp, even injuries would just be generally slower, also you would get knocked down easier. Injuries to the torso would slow you down and weaken you (reduce your force). Head injuries would make you dizy (like getting punched in perfect dark). The effects become more prominent as the percent damage gets higher. If your injuries become critical then you lose the fight. If both arms become 100% you lose. If either leg becomes 100%, or both legs are above 75%, you lose. If either the head or torso become 100%, or both the head and torso are above 75%, you lose. ____________________________Fighting_____________________________ The main focus of the figting is to make it more fluid and dynamic. There would be your regular predefined swings, jumps, ect. Which would be slightly changable while you are executing them but would still maintain their form. These different swings jumps and movements would all be combinable and you would kinda slur them together. Working with momentum would definatly play a role. For example your opponent runs forward and swings at you, so you move quickly to the right while executing a sideways swing and get him in the kidneys. It would be alot about reading your opponent moves and quickly coming up with the best move to counteract that, instead of mashing buttons and hoping it turns out good. When you are fighting your weapons hit eachother, and based on force ratios sometimes you'll overpower the enemy, or you might get knocked back, or both might just hit and both weapons be knocked back at about the same rate. If the enemy is taking a swing at you then you will probably need to put your weapon in the way to block it. Depending on force ratios you might deflect the blow with ease, or you might be overpowered and take a hit anyway (although the damage would be lower), or maybe be kocked back a bit or all the way down. The main point of it are the fluid combinations of movements, and the clashing of metal with effects based on force ratios. Not just press button and see if hit or miss, repeat. ________________________Special Moves____________________________ As usual executing special moves requires you to press a chain of bottons. The difference is it is not about who can throw them out the fastest, or about really complicated chains. A special move is somthing that can be very powerfull if used at the right time, but can be very bad if unsucessful. For example if there is some sort of magic in the move then after you execute the chain your charecter goes into a short meditation to gather energy, in which he/she is completely veunerable. What this does is make it so you will not want to use this move unless you are a good distance from the other player, or he is very slowed from injuries. Another special might be a huge overhead swing that should go crashing into your opponents skull, but if it doesn't you got some pulling out of the ground to do and your opponent will take advantage of the situation. I think you get the point, it's more a tactical thing instead of just a test to see who's better a pressing buttons. [edited by - MTT on June 1, 2004 1:03:12 AM]

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quote:
I have jotted down some ideas on things that I think would work well with a fighting game. When I wrote it I was thinking about a game that is 3d, players carry a one handed sword, there different items you get (such as swords that are different weights and lengths), and there is a leveling system. Allmost like a fighting/RPG hybrid. Most of the stuff can be applied to different things but I figure it probably helps that I tell you.


Ive switched projects for my portfolio and im doing something similiar only without weapons, but the same on the character advancement. I will make predefined characterrs with a story and backbone as in say Tekken, but I will have a mode where you create your on fighter and climb up the ranks and such...

quote:
_____________________________Stats_______________________________

Strength: Strength comes in two catagories, right arm strangth and left arm strength. Stregth effects your force rating, the higher your force rating the more you will be able to overpower your opponent, and the more damage it will do with a hit. Also if you have alot of force coompared to your opponent then blocking their hits will be very easy and won't hinder you much.

Toughness: Toughness effects how much damage you will take from hits. Sombody who is not very tough will damage very easily, but sombody who is very tough will be able to take a few hard blows before the damage becomes critical.

Speed: Speed come in three catagories, moving speed, swinging speed, and recovery speed. Moving speed effects how fast your charecter is able to move. Swing speed effects how fast you are able to move around your sword. This includes while you are swinging and getting your sword back into position after a swing. Recovery speed is how long it takes you to get back into position if you have been hit, blocked a hit, or were knocked backwards by a hit.



Wow, did not think of this that sounds cool the two arm being diffrent, very good. I will have this to cause I will try to bring a certain level of realism in my fighting project.

I have this as well same factor I will have more bars then only the energy type so you will have to watch what you do every time and cant button mash your way to victory.

About the speed Im in a fact gonna keep it simpel and use only one agility factor, apart from the recovery that will be a diffrent factor. But you worked out everything very well, thanks for the inspiration...

quote:
_________________________Damage system___________________________

Screw the damage bar it is far to basic. The damage would be represented by the outline on a body. This would be divided into six sections: head, torso, right arm, left arm, right leg, left leg. The damage to these parts of the body are in percents and represented by a color (possibly different one every 10 percent, the traditional fade from bright green to dark red). Injuries to the different parts of the body would result in various effects. Injuries to either arm would reduce the force of that arm (basically weaken it). Leg injuries would slow you down, uneven injuries would give you a limp, even injuries would just be generally slower, also you would get knocked down easier. Injuries to the torso would slow you down and weaken you (reduce your force). Head injuries would make you dizy (like getting punched in perfect dark). The effects become more prominent as the percent damage gets higher. If your injuries become critical then you lose the fight. If both arms become 100% you lose. If either leg becomes 100%, or both legs are above 75%, you lose. If either the head or torso become 100%, or both the head and torso are above 75%, you lose.


I have worked this out as well so that you can damage body parts it will increase tactics in a fight, and it will enable a fighter to concentrate on a strong or weak body part and mess it up so badly that it will be disabled. I like this very much, this would be a welcome idea in a decent fighting game.

quote:

____________________________Fighting_____________________________

The main focus of the figting is to make it more fluid and dynamic. There would be your regular predefined swings, jumps, ect. Which would be slightly changable while you are executing them but would still maintain their form. These different swings jumps and movements would all be combinable and you would kinda slur them together. Working with momentum would definatly play a role. For example your opponent runs forward and swings at you, so you move quickly to the right while executing a sideways swing and get him in the kidneys. It would be alot about reading your opponent moves and quickly coming up with the best move to counteract that, instead of mashing buttons and hoping it turns out good. When you are fighting your weapons hit eachother, and based on force ratios sometimes you'll overpower the enemy, or you might get knocked back, or both might just hit and both weapons be knocked back at about the same rate. If the enemy is taking a swing at you then you will probably need to put your weapon in the way to block it. Depending on force ratios you might deflect the blow with ease, or you might be overpowered and take a hit anyway (although the damage would be lower), or maybe be kocked back a bit or all the way down. The main point of it are the fluid combinations of movements, and the clashing of metal with effects based on force ratios. Not just press button and see if hit or miss, repeat.


I think youre doing very well. I said the same I dont want STOPS in fights I want it to be a fluid constant whole, I want to keep the tempo of the fight of a high rate constantly. I think this is what you mean and by al means try to achieve this :D I dont want to many buttons I will try to restrict it to 4 buttons and the movement buttons and such, 2 for fighting left and right arm and 2 dodge buttons, every fighter will have this.

Same goes for blocking and countering this will be a important part for me. I want players to be able to see openings and react to them if theyre char is fast enough he can use an opening to his/hers advantage and counter a move from his opponent, be it a throw, a punch or kick etc.

quote:
________________________Special Moves____________________________

As usual executing special moves requires you to press a chain of bottons. The difference is it is not about who can throw them out the fastest, or about really complicated chains. A special move is somthing that can be very powerfull if used at the right time, but can be very bad if unsucessful. For example if there is some sort of magic in the move then after you execute the chain your charecter goes into a short meditation to gather energy, in which he/she is completely veunerable. What this does is make it so you will not want to use this move unless you are a good distance from the other player, or he is very slowed from injuries. Another special might be a huge overhead swing that should go crashing into your opponents skull, but if it doesn't you got some pulling out of the ground to do and your opponent will take advantage of the situation. I think you get the point, it's more a tactical thing instead of just a test to see who's better a pressing buttons.


I like how you do this this keeps from the constant use of a fireball per example like in SF2. I will not have special moves like fireballs, lasers, energy balls and such. But I will have a mode when a player gets beat up to much he will reach a dead point in his brain he snaps, this will make him stronger and level above hisself, like in movies when the hero gets beat up and suddenly he gets inspiration and stands up and beats the crap out of the other, be this of anger or pure focus.

I will have massive combos, that can be infinitly linked if the player knows how so you could unchain a non stop pletora of dodges, moves, punches and kicks non stop if you would want to. Same goes for fighting it just depends on how you play...


I really enjoyed your post and I wish you well on your project I hope my input was of some use, or my ideas were ? Good luck !?





[edited by - Jamaludin on June 1, 2004 5:59:53 AM]

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Thanks for the input. It's not a project of mine at the time because I don't have the programming knowledge to do it at the time, but I would like to do some sort of RPG/Swordfighting hybrid some day.

[edited by - MTT on June 1, 2004 9:13:53 PM]

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ah dont mention it :D well good luck then haha, I am working on a fighting project right now, making the concept art and 3d models and textures plus riggin them and making anims. And while im doing this im learning to program so by the time all the graphics are done I can start programming the whole thing...

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What about shoulder/torso/hip/leg strengths? A skilled fighter uses his entire body in every move he makes.

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quote:
Original post by Cestps
What about shoulder/torso/hip/leg strengths? A skilled fighter uses his entire body in every move he makes.


What wouldd you suggest relating these stats to. I could see the legs being about speed a stability, but I''m not sure about the other ones.

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If you want simple "bindings", you could use shoulder for hold and throw moves, torso for evasive moves, and hip for kicks. However, in reality every technique uses many different muscle groups, which was the point I was trying to get across. When an expert fighter does a long punch, he will not only use his arm, but also do a pushing motion with his hip and shoulders, as well as straighten the leg which is on the same side as the punch. A quick jab also uses the shoulders and hips, but not the legs. For speed, a forward kick will rely to a great deal on the stomach area muscles on its way out, and on the hip on its way back in - for strength, however, leg strength will be more decisive.

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I can see your point that in reality it is a more complex than just having the arm in general used in a swing but is it really worth overcomplicating the system for the sake of realism? One way somthing more complicated might be good is if you related each swing to certain muscle groups so that one type of swing might be very strong because those muscle groups are strong, but another might be weak, giving the player a more prodominantly used swing type. As I said this might overcomplicate things and lead to you having to micromanage your fitness.

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I just recommended this in another thread, but it applies here, too. Check out the PC game ''Die by the sword''. I have no idea where you could get it from, but apart from being a little buggy, this is exactly the game you''re looking for.

You play a swordfighter and directly control your sword. Move the joystick (or mouse, or key) forward-right and your hero will move his sword to the up-right. Then move the joystick backward=left and the hero will slash a diagonal through the opponent. It surely takes some time to master, but it''s sure worth is. Very fun in multiplayer, too.

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Also look at Fire Pro Wrestling(for Dreamcast and GBA, and maybe some others now). It lets you customize your characters enough to really be a generic hand-to-hand combat system with wrestling trappings: You can choose their fighting style, weak and strong points, and, of course, their custom attacks, of which you choose something like 20 from a list of thousands. Most are variations of each other, but there are so many combinations that you can''t help but come up with unique fighters.

The fighting system itself is sort of a mix of good and bad, though. There''s a "breathe button" which lets you recover stamina(not injury) lost during the fight. Different parts can be targeted, and most strategies involve attacking the same one until your foe collapses(or you get a critical and end it instantly). But the attacks themselves are divided into grappling and non-grappling moves. The problem here is that while grappling depends on your timing abilities - when you move in close an animation starts and you press the move you want to do right as their hands touch - non-grappling moves don''t. Doing a simple punch or kick repetitively and otherwise keeping away tends to result in an easy victory against the AI, because the blocking and dodging for those moves seems to be oversimplified and dependent mostly on health.

Much of the fighting would have to go out the window when you start using swords, but I think the rest of Fire Pro''s system might be well-adapted. DBTS as mentioned above lets you control swordfighting precisely, but it''s otherwise very much an arcade game. If you lose limbs, you''re not out, just somewhat impared.

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