quote:Original post by Monder
I think when you have a system like this you want to make sure you don''t have too much detail and micromangement in it. It''s nice to be able to customize things but many players aren''t going to want to obsess over every detail. Things like templates are a good idea as it allows someone to get a ship built quickly and then make a few alterations rather than having to build the whole thing themselves.

Yes, very good point. Detail is nice when you have a little, but it kills when you have alot. A ship with a couple of rooms and a handful of crew will be relatively easy to manage, but beyond that it takes a few tricks of UI to keep things sane.

quote:
I know with things such as space games looking at all the cool stuff you can buy once you''re rich is a good incentive to keep playing and get more money (or whatever). It''s a goal to work towards, you''re not just randomly flying round space.

Great reminder. I''m going to make sure window shopping is easy even from a distance so you know can keep your eye on the prize. After all, in the future, why can''t you order online?

quote:
Oh and this is kinda OT but have you got a website or anything for your game Wavinator, or are you still completely in the design stage?

Sorry, I haven''t put together a website yet. Once I lock down the design and get a bit more art in place to show there''ll be something more substantial to look at. Maybe in a couple of months?


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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote:Original post by serratemplar
I am looking forward to this space combat thread.

Will do!

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Just waiting for the mothership...

I''m curious as how your going to intergate technology into ship construction. For instance what about when diffrent races have diffrent levels of technology. Will parts from diffrent races be compatiable together? Can I have generator from race A and power system from race B and then have the ship built by race C? Also what happens when it comes to installing, and repair parts of the ship? Can I only take my ship to a shipyard with an equal or greater tech rating? After all it doesn''t make sense that an engine designed by the most advanced race could be repaired by the most primitive.



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"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

quote:Original post by TechnoGoth
I''m curious as how your going to intergate technology into ship construction. For instance what about when diffrent races have diffrent levels of technology. Will parts from diffrent races be compatiable together? Can I have generator from race A and power system from race B and then have the ship built by race C?

Thanks for asking, I''d given this some thought. Here''s what I have so far:

Tech has a level and a class. The difference betweeen your empire''s level and the TL of the object you want to install determines how difficult it will be. The class adds a further modification. Classes are alphabetical, and each letter is a 33% chance that putting in an alien object will cause problems and critical failures in not just the item, but in surrounding connected systems. If the tech is too advanced, you won''t be able to make it work; and if it''s too alien, it''ll may work intermittenly, burn out nearby systems, cause internal damage, etc.

quote:
Also what happens when it comes to installing, and repair parts of the ship? Can I only take my ship to a shipyard with an equal or greater tech rating? After all it doesn''t make sense that an engine designed by the most advanced race could be repaired by the most primitive.

Excellent point. Yes, this is yet another stat that will help make different locations different, even if they have the similar graphics. Any repair area (including healing, btw) has a TL which both caps the maximum amount of damage that can be repaired. The lower the TL, the longer it takes as well, incurring docking fees.



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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote:Original post by serratemplar
I feel that the level of potential complexity is approaching critical mass but...

Nah, this is a skill (Engineering - Alien), a facility (Class 3 Scanners), and a variable that switches the template for the item one letter closer to your own tech class. Everything else would use existing rules.

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Worst case your boys have no idea what it is.
Maybe they can make some of it work.
Best case they can not only use all of the device, but they can duplicate the effect with your own technology.

Exactly! This is a skill test when you use the scanners to analyze the item, and as you mentioned a critical result would be being able to duplicate it, whereas a critical failure would be tripping some failsafe mechanism.



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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote:Original post by Wavinator
For instance, let's say that you're simultaneously boarded in the middle of space combat. If you have a competent security chief, he'll tell you where they are, what they're attempting, how likely it is to succeed, and what he plans to do about it ("We've got PA Suits attempting to sieze control of engineering, but I already have defenses in place. The situation should be contained in 10 minutes."). Then you'll get to either nudge a few factors or veto his action and take on the situation yourself. If you do that, your Executive Officer handles the space combat while you deal with the boarders.

If you veto his decision, he should feel let down/lose loyalty, even though you may have made the right desicion. Adding a little more humanlike AI could be a good thing. But this is off-topic.

quote:Original post by Wavinator
Would you bother with a snap-on UI to build ships and bases if it had no real impact on your in-game capabilities? Maybe you make a T shape with engines on the ends of the T, versus a H shape with engines on the bottom. In game stats still control your turn rate, armor etc. (I REFUSE to tackle rigid body physics!!!! )

I would use the "snap-on UI", but personally, I think that customization should be heavily encouraged, but not necessary, even though customization is one of the main reasons to play this game. Make it so that you can buy a pre-made ship, but a self-made ship is probably going to be better. This way there are multiple levels of customization:
Low Customization - Buy pre-made ship
Medium Customization - Make ship with pre-made rooms
High Customization - Make ship with custom designed rooms

quote:Original post by Wavinator
I was thinking about adding in psuedo-physics "principles" for putting things together (like "warp fields" that interfere with sensors) but I'm not sure its even worth the trouble.

Don't. If you want warp fields to interfere with sensors, make anything that makes a warp field also make a sensor-interference field. This also adds the potential for "cleaner" (less interference) warp fields.

quote:Original post by Wavinator
Tech has a level and a class. The difference betweeen your empire's level and the TL of the object you want to install determines how difficult it will be. The class adds a further modification. Classes are alphabetical, and each letter is a 33% chance that putting in an alien object will cause problems and critical failures in not just the item, but in surrounding connected systems. If the tech is too advanced, you won't be able to make it work; and if it's too alien, it'll may work intermittenly, burn out nearby systems, cause internal damage, etc.

How about this: Make it so that the class letters have a relation to each other. For example, if your crew is used to class B, class A systems will be easy for the to install, but class O systems will be near impossible. If you decide to implement this, make the relation loop (...X-Y-Z-A-B-C...).





Edited for clarity.

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I am the master of stories.....
If only I could just write them down...

I just saw this quote and had to put it here, "Just look at 99% of entertainment, it's all in your face detritus."

[edited by - Nathaniel Hammen on June 8, 2004 12:33:02 AM]

quote:Original post by Nathaniel Hammen
If you veto his decision, he should feel let down/lose loyalty, even though you may have made the right desicion. Adding a little more humanlike AI could be a good thing. But this is off-topic.

I agree with adding more of a human component (working hard on that right this instant), but you have to be a bit careful with this specifically. The crew would be looking up to you, and if you knew something they didn''t know, they should trust you.

But you''ve tempted me, though. I just added an event like this that I''ll base on the specific NPC''s personality. It will only rarely be drastic enough to reduce morale, but it could get in the way of raising loyalty.

Technically, the NPC should evaluate whether or not their plan would have worked, then blame the player for not implementing their plan. But I think this involves far more evaluation than I''m willing to commit wrt AI.

quote:Original post by Wavinator
I would use the "snap-on UI", but personally, I think that customization should be heavily encouraged, but not necessary, even though customization is one of the main reasons to play this game. Make it so that you can buy a pre-made ship, but a self-made ship is probably going to be better. This way there are multiple levels of customization:
Low Customization - Buy pre-made ship
Medium Customization - Make ship with pre-made rooms
High Customization - Make ship with custom designed rooms

Sounds good.

quote:

quote:Original post by Wavinator
I was thinking about adding in psuedo-physics "principles" for putting things together (like "warp fields" that interfere with sensors) but I''m not sure its even worth the trouble.

Don''t. If you want warp fields to interfere with sensors, make anything that makes a warp field also make a sensor-interference field. This also adds the potential for "cleaner" (less interference) warp fields.

Yes, this is sort of what I meant. IOW, there''ll be a couple of visual spheroids around certain parts, and if they overlap other parts, it changes the ship''s stats and semi-random events.

quote:

quote:Original post by Wavinator
Tech has a level and a class. The difference betweeen your empire''s level and the TL of the object you want to install determines how difficult it will be. The class adds a further modification. Classes are alphabetical, and each letter is a 33% chance that putting in an alien object will cause problems and critical failures in not just the item, but in surrounding connected systems. If the tech is too advanced, you won''t be able to make it work; and if it''s too alien, it''ll may work intermittenly, burn out nearby systems, cause internal damage, etc.

How about this: Make it so that the class letters have a relation to each other. For example, if your crew is used to class B, class A systems will be easy for the to install, but class O systems will be near impossible. If you decide to implement this, make the relation loop (...X-Y-Z-A-B-C...).

You read my mind! And each degree adds a -33% chance to your ability to decipher it.


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Just waiting for the mothership...

Perhaps you could take the classes a step further, by having some race jeolusly guard their classes of technology. If you want to install those Q class Engery cannons that Argonians make then, you''ve got take on an Argonian technician as well who will monitor their use and handle maintence.



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"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

When I suggested "Sim-ship" I didn''t mean to remove combat, so much as to make it more of a secondary event. Putting in all that detail makes it harder to make the game be about the ship''s adventures - so either have it go one way or the other.

Consider that in pretty much all sci-fi stories, the ships themselves are generally used for two story elements:

1. Transportation(beaming down to planets or crossing the galaxy)

2. Fighting

While fighting is going to be a large factor in how you build the ship, you''d have to be quite a bloodthirsty designer to bring it near 100%. The rest of that bulk space is used for the crew, maintainence, life support etc., for the purpose of successfully transporting people from point to point. And so you end up with problems of traffic flow, running utilities, etc. much like in a Sim game. If you want the detail, you have to deliver on that count, or all you''ll really be changing is where you put your critical systems and where you mount your guns.

Now, you could make it so that as in Star Trek, you have a whole thing set up with an "away team" that investigates planets, but in that case, WHO CARES ABOUT THE SHIP? The point of having the detail is to let the player make a more effective design, but it''ll be squandered when most of his time is spent doing unrelated things.

I guess you could make it all work out, but it sounds like a tough job to me.