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TechnoGoth

The circle of death - Abridged Version

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Hmm, well 100 people looked at the full version but no one replied, I can only assume it was too long so here is the condensed version. The circle of death refers to an area based on the range of a characters weapon and techniques. Any opponent who enters the circle can be attacked. The circle is divided into three rings Opponents in the first ring the impaired ring can dodge easier and are harder to hit. Opponents in the optimal ring or second ring are treated normally Hits on opponents in the maximum ring or third ring are weaker then normal Combat consists of performing techniques in pseudo turn based environment. Techniques fall into seven types, offences, defence, counter, movement, offences-movement, defences-movement, counter-movement. All techniques are part of a style and each style is part of a school. All techniques in a given style are all performed with a specific type of weapon/s, or unarmed. A school comprises a number of different styles, which may use different weapons. A character can learn any number of techniques, of any number of styles and schools, At present the only reason not to learn a large number of styles is the decrease in over all proficiency you suffer form dividing your training, but at the same time the character has potentially greater flexibility. Each technique targets one of seven body zones There is also a range modifier. Each technique has damage modifier value, a force value and a damage type value. Techniques also have a balance change, which changes the character’s balance the more off balance the character the more likely they will be hit or miss. There is also speed, recovery time, and drain which is how much stamina is required to use the technique In the case movement techniques, there is a move path For more detail see the circle of death thread. Comment, criticize and discuss. ----------------------------------------------------- "Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own." Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

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quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
Hmm, well 100 people looked at the full version but no one replied, I can only assume it was too long so here is the condensed version.



Yeah, I know how that one feels. Thank goodness you didn't post any math!!! LOL

I read your original thread, but I'll comment here since this is where you'll probably get replies.

quote:

The circle of death refers to an area based on the range of a characters weapon and techniques.
Any opponent who enters the circle can be attacked.
The circle is divided into three rings
Opponents in the first ring the impaired ring can dodge easier and are harder to hit.
Opponents in the optimal ring or second ring are treated normally
Hits on opponents in the maximum ring or third ring are weaker then normal



I think defenses like blocking should also go up in the outer ring and down in the inner ring. You have more time to marshal your strength when you see a strike coming. Maybe make the energy cost for defending lower in the outer ring?

quote:

Combat consists of performing techniques in pseudo turn based environment.


I would have loved to see something like this for a game like Fallout. Animation would be a problem, though, unless you'll rely on us hardcore gamers who could give a care about it. I wouldn't mind if the characters kicked and punched at open air, as in Fallout, and HP went down.

quote:

Techniques fall into seven types, offences, defence, counter, movement, offences-movement, defences-movement, counter-movement.



What is backing away versus backflipping out of the circle versus turning and running? Are these defense moves?

Also, what about weapon's reach? If I have a pole-arm and you have just your fists, do you count where the head of the weapon is or where I am for calcs?

quote:

All techniques are part of a style and each style is part of a school.
All techniques in a given style are all performed with a specific type of weapon/s, or unarmed.
A school comprises a number of different styles, which may use different weapons.
A character can learn any number of techniques, of any number of styles and schools,
At present the only reason not to learn a large number of styles is the decrease in over all proficiency you suffer form dividing your training, but at the same time the character has potentially greater flexibility.



Great potential for leveling up.

While I don't advocate rock-sissors-paper, I recommend you make some styles better able to trump others and warn the player of this (via their sensei or whatever). This way you create an exciting anxiety in the player over the tension of specialization versus generalization (don't tell them what the styles are that trump, and I'd even randomize them each game).

Some players may tell you, btw, that they won't want this, but I've encountered far too many who seem to get a boost out of allieviating the anxiety. It's a psychological feedback mechanism that I think people object to if you tell them you're going to do it, but get addicted to dealing with in your game once present.

quote:

Each technique targets one of seven body zones
There is also a range modifier.
Each technique has damage modifier value, a force value and a damage type value.



What about knockback, knockdown, spin, etc? Maybe these could be % chance modifiers.

quote:

Techniques also have a balance change, which changes the character’s balance
the more off balance the character the more likely they will be hit or miss.
There is also speed, recovery time, and drain which is how much stamina is required to use the technique



Nice, though I'd add in that the more unbalanced you are, the more easily you can be knocked down. Being on the ground also could be a modifier, with more damage taken due to enemies that can stomp down on you-- unless you have either a quick get up technique or can strike from the floor.

quote:

In the case movement techniques, there is a move path



This is good for strategy AND enhances fights in close quarters. It reminds me of chess.

quote:

Comment, criticize and discuss.



Done, done & done.

Btw, any chance I can apply this to the zombies in my lab after my corporation goes south? Resident Evil meets Bushido Blade!


--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

[edited by - Wavinator on June 4, 2004 1:48:18 AM]

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quote:
Original post by Wavinator
Yeah, I know how that one feels. Thank goodness you didn''t post any math!!! LOL



Yes it is rather disconcerting.

quote:

I think defenses like blocking should also go up in the outer ring and down in the inner ring. You have more time to marshal your strength when you see a strike coming. Maybe make the energy cost for defending lower in the outer ring?



It would make sense that blocking is easier in the outer ring, altough being in first ring wouldn''t have impact on blocking since reaction time is handled independtly.

quote:

I would have loved to see something like this for a game like Fallout. Animation would be a problem, though, unless you''ll rely on us hardcore gamers who could give a care about it. I wouldn''t mind if the characters kicked and punched at open air, as in Fallout, and HP went down.



Its encouraging that someone else likes it as well. Also for added effect I was planning on having each battle replayed in realtime after the battle. As well as saving key battles as part of your characters history, so that at the end of the game you watch highlights from your famous battles.


quote:

What is backing away versus backflipping out of the circle versus turning and running? Are these defense moves?



Well, backing awaym turning and running are all considered movement and a free actions meaning any and all characters can do them.

Backflipping would be a defense-movement technique, or possible a counter-movement if the backflip involed kicking the opponent as you flipped, or leaped forward after landing from the backflip.

quote:

Also, what about weapon''s reach? If I have a pole-arm and you have just your fists, do you count where the head of the weapon is or where I am for calcs?



The circle extends around the individual character so the character is always at its center. The weapons reach would be what I called range. So if I have fists which is range 1( range 1 represents about arm length), and you have a spear which is also range 3. By default impaired is range -1, and maximum is range +1.

quote:

Great potential for leveling up.

While I don''t advocate rock-sissors-paper, I recommend you make some styles better able to trump others and warn the player of this (via their sensei or whatever). This way you create an exciting anxiety in the player over the tension of specialization versus generalization (don''t tell them what the styles are that trump, and I''d even randomize them each game).



Well each style has come about as either a philosphy or as a refinement of a from of work. So there will of course be style devloped to specificly counter other styles. Which should add fun and tension. What do you do when you encounter a person who''s techniques easily counter all of your own? :D

quote:

What about knockback, knockdown, spin, etc? Maybe these could be % chance modifiers.



That sounds like a good idea, some techniques could apply a bonus to those % chances, such getting hit by a sweep kick is likly to cause you to be knocked down.

quote:

Nice, though I''d add in that the more unbalanced you are, the more easily you can be knocked down. Being on the ground also could be a modifier, with more damage taken due to enemies that can stomp down on you-- unless you have either a quick get up technique or can strike from the floor.



Well if your prone( lying on the ground) then most of your techniques would be unusable so things would be looking very bad for you.

quote:

This is good for strategy AND enhances fights in close quarters. It reminds me of chess.



Thats what I''m going for I want to create an almost purely strategic combat system.

quote:

Btw, any chance I can apply this to the zombies in my lab after my corporation goes south? Resident Evil meets Bushido Blade!



ha ha, no sorry, the most you can do in that case is activate internal security systems.

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

[edited by - Wavinator on June 4, 2004 1:48:18 AM]




-----------------------------------------------------
"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

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I like the idea. And I''m not commenting anymore because the way you reply in this thread scares me. Honestly

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quote:
Original post by Coz
I like the idea. And I''m not commenting anymore because the way you reply in this thread scares me. Honestly


I''m glad you like the idea.

But I have no idea what you mean by scary replies.

-----------------------------------------------------
"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

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quote:
Original post by TechnoGoth
What do you do when you encounter a person who''s techniques easily counter all of your own? :D



You get PWNED, that''s what

Seriously, that''s the tradeoff for specialization...at some point you may encounter an opponent that you cannot defeat. This can be offset by giving the player access to items that make up for their deficiencies, or just make penalties for player death less severe.

If a player is somewhat diversified, and is allowed to switch forms in the midst of battle in adjustment to their opponent''s style...well, that''s just pretty damn cool (ever played Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance? Not an RPG, but has a similar system).

I like your circle of death system as a means of dealing with different ranges during hand-to-hand combat. It seems like you have a pretty complicated combat system in development, and I''m curious as to how you''re planning to implement it via the player interface without making combat a long, drawn-out process (unless that''s the goal...)

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quote:
Original post by RabidOcelot
I like your circle of death system as a means of dealing with different ranges during hand-to-hand combat. It seems like you have a pretty complicated combat system in development, and I''m curious as to how you''re planning to implement it via the player interface without making combat a long, drawn-out process (unless that''s the goal...)



I''m glad you like it, the feed back so far has been encouraging and It defently seems like a worth while project.

For user interface I envision the user seeing a list of moves and the move information, if it has a move path that will be shown, on screen.

I''m not to worried about combat being drawn out, since my aim is for quality over quantity.

-----------------------------------------------------
"Fate and Destiny only give you the opportunity the rest you have to do on your own."
Current Design project: Ambitions Slave

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