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Wavinator

Do floor triggers / teleporting / spawning enemies break your immersion?

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I remember being intensely involved with System Shock 2's wandering zombies and monsters, thinking that they might be lurking around every corner, until a glitch revealed that they weren't exactly wandering. Through a crack in a wall, I could watch them flash in, then run around a corner and through a door. I've seen code for 3D space combat games where asteroids and enemies are teleported in whenever the player isn't looking in that direction. Games going all the way back to Doom have relied on x,y floor location triggers to run scripts or activate enemies. Does this break your immersion when you know it's happening? If so, why do you think this is? Personally, it feels cheap when I know about it, because I start thinking about the triggers more than the game itself. I don't think that the problem is (for me) that it's unrealistic... I think that it's that the computer doesn't work by the same rules, and so I don't get the pleasure of out-thinking it. I was thinking that if you could figure out where enemies could POSSIBLY be at any moment, this immersion breaking wouldn't be so severe because the player could get into out-thinking the AI based on rules the player knows. For instance, take the line "the average man can cover 5 miles an hour on rough terrain." If you're chasing down an enemy, you at least have a radius over time that tells you where the enemy would be. Sure, you'd still teleport to save on AI processing, but it would at least be based on rules the player could anticipate and plan for. And if you knew what the enemy wanted or needed, you'd have an even better guess where the enemy would show up. On the flip side, the AI could use the same rules against you, so that if you find yourself in a ring of pursuers, it's only because they've calculated where you could possibly be, rather than automatically knowing your X,Y,Z all the time. -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership... [edited by - Wavinator on June 4, 2004 2:22:52 AM]

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quote:
Original post by Wavinator
Does this break your immersion when you know it''s happening? If so, why do you think this is?



It does break my immersion when I''ve spent ages actively exploring and clearing an area of enemies only to turn around and find half a dozen running up behind me. This is mainly dude to the fact that it makes little sense to have them just ''appear'' (unless an obvious teleport is present or even the enemies have the ability to teleport around).


quote:
Original post by Wavinator
And if you knew what the enemy wanted or needed, you''d have an even better guess where the enemy would show up.

On the flip side, the AI could use the same rules against you


The enemies would indeed start camping, mainly because AI is often not sophisticated enough to allow the enemy to be convincing when tracking something. You will know that the enemy is only there because it knows the area has a certain resource and not because it made a strategic deduction about the player''s positon. In other words, you know it''s weighing the numbers instead of making an informed decision based on the player''s personal style of playing - the enemy still doesn''t ''know'' you. Whilst it may prove successful for people who do just resource hoarde, the enemy would be easily fooled if you start frequenting a newer area.

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quote:
Original post by Wavinator
Through a crack in a wall, I could watch them flash in, then run around a corner and through a door.


lol, that''s so funny. Reminds me when people found out that the computer cheats in Rise of Nations. I however, find scripted sequences to be the most enjoyable (although only the first time around). GTA had really bad spawning issues IIRC... find a nice car, look around for any cops, turn back around and it''s gone.

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Yes I really hate that. I like to predict what my enemies do, and if they just spawn in, that really breaks my immersion and takes away a lot of the fun! Like Wavinator, I like it when the AI plays by the same rules as the player and I prefer emergent behavior to scripted one...

The problem is to make the NPC''s behavior look natural, and at the moment that''s just not successful without scripting.

------------------------------
There are only 10 kinds of people: those that understand binary and those that don''t.

Bad Entertainment

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Well there should be a way to stop spawning enemy''s..like in Geneforge 1&2 how there were spawner monsters that keeped spawning little Froyas(cross between dragon, and dinosaur) that would wander about being a real pain..and it was a fun battle to brutaly spray a giant creature with Acid-Fire-Ice and watch all the Created monsters just drop dead

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It''s only a problem if the game is bad. I remember some games where you took an alternative route. Eg. instead of opening the front door of a shack/barrack and get attacked by some soldiers, you''d walk around, go in the back door, walk through it and notice it''s totally empty, exit through the front door and then get shot in the back immediately by the soldiers that just spawned in.

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In half life, when you had to cross the dam, if you climbed over the rocks the right way a scripted sequence didnt trigger. You ended up in the little dam control room with an alien and a marine, and neither moved and you could coat the walls in their blood without killing them.

That was a very scripted game, and it was also one of the best single players FPS games I''ve played, but it did have those occasional little glitches - emergent behaviour deals with unexpected situations much better than any script :o)

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*sigh*

Haven''t any of you naysayers played Duke Nukem 3D? If you haven''t, be ashamed to call yourself a gamer, or even a gamedev...

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quote:
Original post by Onikan
blah blah ... Duke Nukem .. blah blah


I thought the idea of Duke 3d was to be a killfest and not try and be realistic. You''re talking appleas and pears.

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