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Mastadex

Visual C++ 6 versus C++.NET

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This might not had anything to do with game programming, im just wondering what people''s opinions are of the .NET monster M$ has come out with. Which one is better for general application programming, game programming, etc... Opinions, statistics, preference?

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I''m under the impression that .net sucks for some reason, but I don''t really know. I want to know also. Thats two people, that is four times as important as one.

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yes ive been told horror stories about .NET. I dont really like the program to 'handle' certain things for me.

I should really rephrase this. what i meant by this post is visual C++ 6 versus c++/c# .NET framework etc.

[edited by - Mastadex on June 4, 2004 11:06:25 PM]

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No comparison. VC++ 6.0 is a 6 year old hack in relation to VC++ 7.1 which has a better debugger, better IDE (but some will argue), better optimizing compiler, and is 99% standard compliant.

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Im not worried about debuggers because if your a good programmer you wont even need a debugger. Im more worried about speed in the windows environment. I know that VC++ .NET has a feature where you can compile it into either interpolated code or native compiled code. personally i cant really tell the difference but if i was going to develope an application that needed to be the fastest it can possibly be, i would be at a conundrum. this is why im asking.

I want to know what other people think of it. which one is the programming IDE of choice, not by industry, but my personal preference.

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quote:
Original post by Mastadex
Im not worried about debuggers because if your a good programmer you wont even need a debugger. Im more worried about speed in the windows environment. I know that VC++ .NET has a feature where you can compile it into either interpolated code or native compiled code. personally i cant really tell the difference but if i was going to develope an application that needed to be the fastest it can possibly be, i would be at a conundrum. this is why im asking.

I want to know what other people think of it. which one is the programming IDE of choice, not by industry, but my personal preference.


You crack me up bro.

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quote:
Original post by Mastadex
Im not worried about debuggers because if your a good programmer you wont even need a debugger. Im more worried about speed in the windows environment. I know that VC++ .NET has a feature where you can compile it into either interpolated code or native compiled code. personally i cant really tell the difference but if i was going to develope an application that needed to be the fastest it can possibly be, i would be at a conundrum. this is why im asking.

I want to know what other people think of it. which one is the programming IDE of choice, not by industry, but my personal preference.



Good programmers do debug their code and while you can do that without the aid of a debugger its far easier and helps you pinpoint the actual trouble spot. I used to program in an environment where I had no debugger. When I first came to VC++ 6(and now VC++ 7.1) I stuck to the old way of debugging: check output, examine code, make a best-guess, make a fix, repeat... A good debugger is an invaluable tool that will save you an increadible amount of time. To say a good programmer doesn''t need a debugger points to inexperience, either with a good debugger or with programming at large. No one writes perfect code and no one will always be able to spot all their errors. Don''t presume that you''re any different than the other millions of programmers out there.

That said, using both VC++ 6 and 7.1, I would recommend 7.1. It supports tab-views natively, has collapsable scopes, is far more complient to the C++ standard (There are things in C++ that VC++ 6 is simply incapable of.) and produces better, more optimized output to native code. It can also produce managed C++ code to run under the .NET framework. .NET code is Just-In-Time compiled, not interpreted (or interpolated for that matter ) Essentially the .NET application is stored as machine-code for a virtual CPU. As the application runs through its code, it is compiled (by the .NET framework) into native code and stored for the next time that code section is run. Currently .NET applications run at around 85-95% of the speed of statically compiled native code produced by VC++ 7.1. As the JIT compilation process becomes better it should be able to match or even exceed the speed of statically compiled native code because .NET applications can be optimized for a specific platform and also, to some extent, refactored at run time to run optimmaly on any specific system. IE - It can make optimizations specific to Pentium II when it runs on a PII and optimizations specific to a Pentium 4 when it runs on a P4. JIT is still a young technology and is bound to become more efficient. I am currently creating a new language targetted at the .NET platform and I believe .NET code will pass statically compiled code in speed within a few years.

It sounds as if you have been mis-informed as to what the .NET framework is and what it does for you. As with anything it has its pros and cons. Do some more research for yourself: Google is your friend.

Ravyne, NYN Interactive Entertainment
[My Site][My School][My Group]

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quote:

Im not worried about debuggers because if your a good programmer you wont even need a debugger.



bwahahahahahaha.

Thanks.

quote:

I want to know what other people think of it. which one is the programming IDE of choice, not by industry, but my personal preference.



You''d be EXTREMELY hard pressed to find anyone who prefers VC6 to VC7.

There''s nothing in VC7 that prevents you from writing "normal" C / C++ code. .Net is an option.

If you''re not writing speed-critical applications, anyway, you should probably be using C# or Java instead of C++. Portability is a lot simpler, and you don''t have to worry about a lot of stuff that you don''t need to worry about if speed isn''t an issue.

For games, there''s still nothing that really outshines C++. Development may take a bit longer (depending on how skilled you are in a particular language), but the speed is usually essential for any game of significant size.

With the advent of longhorn, it''s not likely that you''ll see any more traditional desktop applications written in anything other than .net languages. Since there''s no difference (theoretically) in .net code coming from a managed C++ backend or a C# backend, there''s no point in writing desktop apps in C++ (unless you really don''t know anything about C#, of course).

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.NET has a better IDE than VC6. Other than that Im not hardcore enough to know whether it is better or worse "under the hood"

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Having used both...

Bad things about .Net:
They killed off my class wizard, dangit. Now it takes me 3 times as many clicks to set up my GUIs.
Weird bug where if you have a lot of files up, the window tabs forget what they are, kind of.
It can take a while to get used to the resource property thing.
The project property setting stuff has gotten a whole lot harder to find stuff in, without really seeming to give any extra functionality that I''ve noticed.
Refuses to compile the first time through with STL being used and certain settings... fixed permanently easily enough by removing the offending code from the Microsoft file.

Good things about .Net:
Project files are now more or less in XML, instead of crazy-stuff-M$-made-up-script.
The IDE, though a tad buggy, is really pretty nice, such as the ability to dock things to various tab sets at your discretion. For instance, I could put my help index at the bottom of the screen with my output and debugging tab set, or I could put it over on the left with my class list and file list tab set. Much more user discretion at workspace layout than 6.

So, in general, I''d say the IDE is nice enough, as well as some of the other things already mentioned, to put up with the bugs and the removal of my *sniffle* class wizard.

-fel

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