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Future Of Game Programming

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I don''t think anyone would disagree with me if I said the current best choice for developing games for Windows is C++ and DirectX. My question is where is the future going? There are so many changes in the future of programming what is going to be the best choice in the future. There are so many options right now. dotNet Java What does the future hold? I read that all development for Windows by 2007 will be in dotNet. Is dotNet with DirectX suitable for game development? Is if fast enough? If it is not then what will a developer use? Will C++ ever become unsupported for Windows? Let me know what you think. I would love to get some idea of what game developers see as the future for game development.

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im using c++ and directx, but im now thinking i should of went with opengl, i rather the multiplatform idea,

I believe there are more resoruces on opengl and other utilities for input detection, sound, and theres winsock whichi think i will learn over directplay

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"I don''t think anyone would disagree with me if I said the current best choice for developing games for Windows is C++ and DirectX."

I disagree.

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Well, right now it is where all the money is. Most families run Windows systems. Crossplatform is nice, but just about every game we see on the shelves that''s worth a damn comes packed with DirectX.

What''s nice (and hope-inspiring) is that there have been games (though very few) that offer the user the option of either using DirectX or OpenGL. If the future of game-programming depends on people like us, who appreciate Linux and tolerate Windows, maybe we''ll come to a point where we''re coding games to work with either DirectX or OpenGL, so we get the best in people-pleasing crossplatform.

Or maybe Nintendo will come out with the next best thing and we''ll all switch to platform development.

=) I''m not holding my breath. For now I''ll study DX and get to OpenGL when I can.

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This may start a bit of a heated discussion, but I really beleive that within the next 5 years you will see a big shift towards linux using OpenGL as the 3D API, and possible SDL for everything else.

As more people start using linux, the games will have to follow. With nVidia and ATI supporting linux with good drivers there is no reason not to make games for it.

That said, right now my engine (or start of) was made in windows... however I am currently learning more about linux programming, and makefiles so I will be swithing to linux full time for programming. I will also make sure what ever I make will run in windows.

Anyone else agree with me on this?

Mike

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quote:
Original post by mrhodes

Anyone else agree with me on this?

Mike


Yes and no,

Yes, because a larger userbase may result in the belief that a large number of profit will be received by doing so, but no, because there are so many flavors of Linux, and to release binary distros for them all, (they wouldn''t release the source code with makefiles), would be way too much effort for the amount of additional revenue (testing, hardware profiles, etc).

~Graham

----
while (your_engine >= my_engine)
my_engine++;

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SDL uses Direct X when compiled on Windows.


( Be Side )

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I don''t think that developers are likely to move away from C++ any time soon ; C# is nice in some respects, but it is not currently a viable option even for PC-Windows-only games, and not available on any consoles (X-Box?).

X-Box 2 will presumably have .NET framework (or parts of it anyway) built-in, so it will be possible to write games using Managed DirectX, but I imagine some houses will continue to use C++

They almost certainly share a lot of code between different platforms, and different games - they are aimed at different devices and different types of game - the houses are going to want to be able to reuse libraries, tools, and developer expertise.

As far as rendering is concerned, this is really a no-brainer, because the houses always rewrite the rendering core for each game / platform anyway to get the most out of the hardware.

Mark

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Languages such as Java and C# are certainly the future. From a professional standpoint, the benefits afforded from using them in a large team are huge. It''s not going to be too much longer before they hit mainstream in the games industry (relatively speaking).

As for platforms, I don''t see Linux ever becoming a viable gaming platform until the community starts to encompass more mainstream gamers. The commercial Linux game market is tiny. There have been several games released on Linux over the past few years with a very low return on investment. I tend to agree with the opinion that those who use Linux as a primary desktop system are not the type of people who buy games. The most common excuse is that they are open source zealots, and while I''m sure that''s true to some extent I think the real reason lies in another direction.

The Mac, on the otherhand, has proven to be a viable market for indies. Take some time to do some research and you will find that most multiplatform indie titles get an equal (or near enough) share of sales on Mac as on Windows. I expect that the market for Mac games will grow, even if Apple''s share of the desktop market lags behind Linux. It''s a different crowd, and a large number are willing to pay for good games.

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By 2007 there probably won''t be much development on Windows, or any PC platform for that matter.

Games are heading to (and staying on) console systems. It''s been going that way for quite some time now, and the trend will likely only continue. Graphics upgrades are becomming less and less important each year, and eventually we''ll get to a point where new hardware won''t make much of a difference at all. Why would you spend $400 on a new video card which yields no visual improvements over a console that costs $200?

Consoles can now pack hard drives, ethernet adapters, keyboards, and mice - which turn them into perfect gaming machines. There is nothing else that you''d need for gaming other than the components that currently exist in the x-box, for example.

Remaining PC game development will likely be running under Java / .Net, as JIT should finally be reaching the point where it''s close enough to the speed of native code to make it worthwhile. Console systems MIGHT use a VM model as well, if the development houses push for it hard enough. It''s not that likely though, as the hardware vendors certainly don''t want to make it easier to port to another platform.

The average home computer user isn''t going to switch to Linux - ever. You''ll have to wait for a whole new generation (or two) of computer users for that. People just don''t think it''s worth saving a hundred dollars or so if they have to learn a whole new system. Time is much more important to the average consumer than a relatively small amount of money, and there''s nothing that these people would do with Linux that they can''t already do with Windows (email, games, web surfing, word processing, multimedia files, and maybe the occasional use of Quicken or the like).

I''d normally say that you''d see a rapid switch to Linux in the workplace, but after talking things over with the IT manager for the company I work for, I''d have to retract. At < $50 a license, it just makes more sense to use windows rather than spending several hours (at a likely cost of $15+ per hour, per employee) to train everyone on Linux.

You might see greater linux adoption in poorer regions of the world, but those aren''t exactly hot spots for game sales either. China is certainly a possibility, but China is a sketchy market with the way the government wants to regulate content so heavily.

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quote:
Original post by mrhodes
This may start a bit of a heated discussion, but I really beleive that within the next 5 years you will see a big shift towards linux using OpenGL as the 3D API, and possible SDL for everything else.



Commercial games aren''t switching to Linux anytime soon. They actually need people to pay money for their games to survive.

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Thanks to everyone for their input. I think this was an interesting subject. It will be fun to look to the future and to see how things turn out. I should say that I am a Delphi 7.0 developer and I use DirectX (DelphiX) to make games. I like Delphi because (like C++) I like a true executable, not a VM runtime. And with the help of DirectX anything I want to do runs just as fast as anything else out there. I may try to learn C++ but not at this time. I to like the advantages of Linux but since I hope to one day make money from my games I have to stay with the public and that is Windows. I have looked at console games but I am the type of person that doesn''t like buying hardware that can only play games. I like computers because I can play games but also surf the web or balance my check book. But that is just me.

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"By 2007 there probably won''t be much development on Windows, or any PC platform for that matter."

This is simply laughable. The PC market is here to stay. You think in 2.5 years there wont be hardly any games being made for PC?

the PC is THE development tool for any software company. It is where hardware advances are made and optimized, and its where the games are made.

As long as this is the case, PC releases will stay strong, and they will sell well because it is STILL the most viable multiplayer option available, as well as the best platform for certain genres of games.

Give the market ~10 years and you may see a shift, but even then the PC will be on par with consoles as far as viability as a gamers platform goes.

but 2007?? the next gen hardware will have barely been released by then and you think that all of a sudden developers are gonna drop the PC market? please

______________________________________

what we do in life, echoes in eternity

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I like both.
But for programming with, DirectX by far.

Everyone seems to not meantion anything about shaders though. I think we can see a greater use of them in the future, especially with all the free to use programs and tools provided by the leading video card manufacturers. I don''t know much about them, but I heard that creativity is the only limit with them.

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I like GLFW + OpenGL + OpenAL + Lua.

DirectX has a couple more features than OpenGL, but your game should not be defined by eye candy anyway.

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The issue really isn''t what we as developers like as systems to work on. I think that most of us if asked, point blank, we''d say "We''d rather work with Linux" because

1. It''s much more stable than Windows.
2. It''s free. (Long live GNU.)
3. We fell in love with it in college or before.

However we''ve got to cater to the consumer, the average person, who is pretty much terrified of computers anyway. Windows is the popular thing. Libaries use it, fathers brought it home from offices during the 90s and kids grew up on it. I think it''s possible (and even likely) that as society grows more and more comfortable with computers, more proficient, people are going to prefer free and comparable to pretty boxes.

So yeah, in a couple of decades, unless Windows becomes free as an OS (and becomes easier for normal people to maintain), I have some faith that linux, or one of its off-shoots, will take a better standing.

But right now computer-phobia is giving way to a Windows dependence.

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Well, sooner or later some other language or SDK will replace what we use now. Be it by Microsoft or whoever...

Personally I try not to worry too much about the tech-specs of a game - but the game itself. Most games were first wrote in Machine code, then Assembly and now C/C++. Something else will take it''s place in time.

In all honesty, I think Java will be the one to do it but I still feel that Java has a little futher to go before that happens.

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The way see it, C++ isn''t going anywhere for a while. A lot of high-level "game-development" languages (BlitzBASIC, DarkBASIC, the list goes on and on . . ) borrow a lot of ideas from C and C++ (types, structures[i think] and crap like that) so youre never going to fully get rid of C++ because its just so much more convenient. C++ offers so many shorts cuts like less complex if statements, increment and decrement operators, and function overloading <-(thank you jesus) that it is truly the dominant language and will stay that way for a while. As for DirectX and OpenGL, i perfer DirectX over OpenGL, but this is because DirectX is all i know. I was thinking of learning to work with OpenGL, but that has yet to come about.

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quote:
Original post by serratemplar
1. It''s much more stable than Windows.
2. It''s free. (Long live GNU.)
3. We fell in love with it in college or before.



You must not live on this planet.
1) I''ve had Windows XP for close to 3 years and not a blue screen of death. Like a rock.
2) Support isn''t. Chasing for drivers, hacking your kernel is not my idea of fun. I just want to turn the box on, play a game, program a little, hook up a newest gadget without a fuss, and prepare a presentation in PowerPoint and Excel.
3) Nope, didn''t fall in love and I''m in college. Neither did any of my friends.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Linux on the desktop is just ass backwards.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by fallenang3l
quote:
Original post by serratemplar
1. It''s much more stable than Windows.
2. It''s free. (Long live GNU.)
3. We fell in love with it in college or before.



You must not live on this planet.
1) I''ve had Windows XP for close to 3 years and not a blue screen of death. Like a rock.
2) Support isn''t. Chasing for drivers, hacking your kernel is not my idea of fun. I just want to turn the box on, play a game, program a little, hook up a newest gadget without a fuss, and prepare a presentation in PowerPoint and Excel.
3) Nope, didn''t fall in love and I''m in college. Neither did any of my friends.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Linux on the desktop is just ass backwards.




Sounds like another Microsoft drone.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by fallenang3l
quote:
Original post by serratemplar
1. It''s much more stable than Windows.
2. It''s free. (Long live GNU.)
3. We fell in love with it in college or before.



You must not live on this planet.
1) I''ve had Windows XP for close to 3 years and not a blue screen of death. Like a rock.
2) Support isn''t. Chasing for drivers, hacking your kernel is not my idea of fun. I just want to turn the box on, play a game, program a little, hook up a newest gadget without a fuss, and prepare a presentation in PowerPoint and Excel.
3) Nope, didn''t fall in love and I''m in college. Neither did any of my friends.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Linux on the desktop is just ass backwards.




Sounds like another Microsoft drone.



Sounds like another open source zealot living in a bubble.

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***Open Source != Free software***

You are all muppets.

This crap about "Linux means you have to give all your source away and make no money" and "Windows means you'll have to succumb to evil commercialism" just seems so stupid. Sun, MySQL AB and Trolltech use both Open Source and Commercial licensing systems. They reap huge benefits in beta testing and feature development.

1. There is nothing wrong with making money.
2. Newer versions of both Windows and Linux are viable commercial platforms for all kinds of software.
3. Open Source is good, the benefits in education and business process development are useful.
4. To M$ "drones" - Open Source software runs on Windows too you know!
5. To Open Source "zealots" - Stop bragging and start showing people what the OS can do.
6. To the people who complain their software dosen't work: RTFM.

^My honest opinion^

[edited by - pkelly83 on June 9, 2004 6:22:22 PM]

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And a remarkably rude Drone at that.

Dude, I''m not dissin Windows. I am a fan of Windows because of DirectX, and I love my games. I couldn''t live without Blizzard games or Unreal Tournie.

Windows shouldn''t cost hundreds of bucks though. And Windows is *far* more susceptible to internet-born viruses and attacks than any linux system ever would be. I run my Windows system behind a router and a firewall. That sort of protection simply isn''t needed on a linux system. Unless, of course, you don''t know what you''re doing as the sysop.

And because Windows packs unprecedented backward-compatibility, there is just a lot more to go wrong. I have seen XP blue screen (it wasn''t pretty), but they are very, very rare - much rarer than anything before, which is nice. And not everyone has gone and upgraded to XP yet, so that lack of stability is still prevalent.

I do like Windows; my primary systems all run Windows. But I wouldn''t mind it if Windows would give me more of the processing power of my computer, instead of hogging 20% to 50% of the resources for itself. The memory manager is nice, but I wonder how fast things would go if we had DirectX and no Windows.

It''d be sort of like XBox development without all the Big Brother proprietary silliness.

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oh, come on. it isn't about microsoft having drones, anonymous pork sausage. sometimes people don't want to wrestle with an operating system, that's all. i'm as much of an elitist about certain subjects (films, programming, music, sound design) as the next guy, but this is really what works best for the user. it's like saying that because you like your car better than someone else's, somehow yours actually transports you from place to place better. if they're functional, there is no signifigant difference. it's just what you prefer or can afford or can implement.
i like linux, sure, and it has it's place, but it's FAR from perfect. yeah, it's got some good specific uses. who's denying that? i use xp on my main unit, so what? i love it, big deal? it's an opinion. i get a lot more done with it than linux. i guess it's my mileu, if that's even the correct spelling.

by the way?

why does every forum have to have people that write posts for no other reason than to criticize. we have all this technology and can't muster enough of an evolved audience to have a simple discussion about the future of gaming with it, much less explore the reaches of the universe.

"i think the future of gaming is directx and c++"
"d00d, yer s0 st00pid, LaMeR. it's t0tally CoNoLeS and c# ThE 733t for real's though, ya'll"
"no, you must be a total idiot, it's opengl and linux, bioootch!"
"man, games'll be made on a bucket and chopsticks you moron idiot faces"

it's like a f**king episode of hee-haw or something.
y'know what the future of gaming is? nintendo!
that's right suckers! there's an 8bit programming class at carnegie that's for making nes roms and i've been doing the tutorials and i'm going to make a game that looks better than the new unreal engine (did you guys see the E3 footage? i needed a towel) on the nintendo. it'll be a game called "flamers" and you can make original posts and then flame yourself as different characters. that's all most of you a**holes do anyway.

[edited by - sanstereo on June 9, 2004 12:23:37 AM]

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